Qnap or Synology how quiet?

8 minutes ago, unbalanced output said:

 

Im researching about reducing the noise levels on the Synology and came across your comment. Care to explain what else did you change (settings etc.) when upgrading from the 416 to the 916? They have exactly the same chassis and fans, so I'm surprised there could be a significant difference between them when running the same drives. 

Well I don't know what to tell you. I didn't change any settings or anything - I just returned my DS416 and bought the DS916+.

I couldn't tell you if they are the same chassis and fans, but something is clearly different. The DS416 - 2 samples I tried - were noisy. The DS916+ was and is super quiet.

To dig deeper into why - ask Synology, I suppose.

Most of the models list noise specs on the page at Synology and QNAP

If you tinker with PC's you become aware that there is significant variation in fan noise by RPM and controller optimization. Larger fans turn slower so less noise, and precision designed fans have less air drag. Cooler running hard drives or cases with better  air spacing between drives require less fan RPM's to cool. Running 2.5" SSD's in the 3.5'" slots of my DS214play is dead silent because of the minimal cooling load.

@austinpop thanks for the data point. Do you know if the noise you had was specifically from the fans or from the chassis due to mechanical vibrations? Did you mount he same drives on both units?

The reason I'm interested is because I just got the 416 and based on your experience I was wondering whether it would make sense to swap for the 916. I'm wondering if you just had a bad build.

Having mounted some old (hot and noisy) HDDs on the 416 for testing  it seems to me that by changing the fans and with some vibration control the unit could be made a lot quieter. I still need to decide which drives to use - the bigger HDDs (8 and 10Tb) are quite a lot noisier than the small ones. 

I have 3 QNAPs in operation and most of the noise is from the drive operations themselves.  Fan noise is minimal and rare, such as during tests, formatting and, very rarely, during heavy-duty data transfers.

On 25.1.2017 at 5:58 PM, erniejade said:

For Qnap I was thinking of, TS-231-US or TS-231+-US and for the Synology DS216j.

Why not HS-251+

But if you think you will go Roon, you may considder the SonicTransporter i5 ?

https://www.audiostream.com/content/intel-nuc-sonictransporter-tale-two-mini-computers-running-roon-core

The Qnap can also run Roon, so it's still a good option. 

7 hours ago, unbalanced output said:

@austinpop thanks for the data point. Do you know if the noise you had was specifically from the fans or from the chassis due to mechanical vibrations? Did you mount he same drives on both units?

I mounted the same drives on both the 416 and 916+. They're 4 x 4TB WD Reds.

It's a combination of the fans (mostly) but also mechanical vibrations. I even looked into replacing the fans, and I bought a velcro kit for vibrations. But when I looked at the procedure for replacing the fans - just search on Youtube - I had a "naaah" reaction. It's not hard, but it's a lot of steps. Unlike some Synology 4-bays, the 416 has to be almost completely disassembled to get at the fans.

Since I was already on the fence about getting the much more powerful 916+, I figured I'd get that, and then deal with noise if it remained. To my surprise, it was really quiet, to the extent I never even used the velcro vibration kit.

Yes, of course it's possible I got a bad unit, but remember, I tried 2, and both had the same problem.

In my experience, HDD noise is an even more important concern than fan noise. Between HDD model and RAID implementation, it could cause more noise than the fan would.

1 hour ago, foodfiend said:

In my experience, HDD noise is an even more important concern than fan noise. Between HDD model and RAID implementation, it could cause more noise than the fan would.

I see you're also looking into some new storage  Agreed. And a good part of HDD noise is typically indirect (i.e. caused by vibrations). 

Just wanted to share this link on HDD noise levels. It's getting difficult to find comparisons since SPCR stopped their testing:

https://us.hardware.info/reviews/7265/14/nas-hdd-review-18-models-compared-noise-levels

@unbalanced output I note that the larger drives are also louder/noisier than the mid-sized ones. My frame of reference is the 6TB WD Red HDD, since that is what I have in one of my DS1815+s. Was contemplating whether to move to the 10TB Seagate Ironwolf, or to acquire the DX513 and go from there. However, the Seagate unit is about 20% up on noise... Even the 8TB WD Red is in that range.

I just ordered a WD Red of 6Tb a a few minutes ago  seems to be the better compromise between size, price and noise at the moment. Here's a explanation for the noise difference: 

https://support.wdc.com/knowledgebase/answer.aspx?ID=15108

From that page:

"As shown in WD Product Specifications, the 6TB Purple HDD has Idle acoustics at 25dBA and Seek acoustics at 26dBA while the 8TB has Idle acoustics at 20dBA and Seek acoustics at 29dBA (sound power level). A common issue with comparing acoustics is the sound floor (ambient noise) while idle compared to the acoustics during active seeking. For the 6TB, this is only a 1dBA delta but for the 8TB this is ~9dBA making it much more distinct. The lower Idle acoustics are due to the Helium filled MBA (motor base assembly) and the higher seeking acoustics are due to the seeking algorithms used to maintain expected performance requirements."

The NAS is definitely quieter with the 6tb we red instead of the old 7200rpm drives, however it is still not totally quiet. Therefore I will be moving for level 2 which means changing the fans, insulation and vibration control. That will maybe also include a cabinet with a front door which allows air circulation from the back. What I also don't like about having fans is the amount of dust that eventually gets collected over time - should also be better from this point of view. 

I've just replaced the stock fans for Nocuta NF-A9 FLXs. Frankly, the change can be done in 15 minutes. I wanted to use the rubber mounts, and that actually took a lot more time due to the lack of space. 

However, the box is subjectively as loud as before. The fans spin simply too fast, and the difference between the quiet and full speed is not that significative. The little NAS box is still a bit noisier than my liquid cooled PC with 5 fans and a water pump which it was supposed to replace, this thing is way out of the 19.4 dB spec. 

How do I slow down these fans? If I have to resort to a manual fan controller I swear I never buy a pre-built NAS anymore. 

27 minutes ago, unbalanced output said:

I've just replaced the stock fans for Nocuta NF-A9 FLXs. Frankly, the change can be done in 15 minutes. I wanted to use the rubber mounts, and that actually took a lot more time due to the lack of space. 

 

However, the box is subjectively as loud as before. The fans spin simply too fast, and the difference between the quiet and full speed is not that significative. The little NAS box is still a bit noisier than my liquid cooled PC with 5 fans and a water pump which it was supposed to replace, this thing is way out of the 19.4 dB spec. 

 

How do I slow down these fans? If I have to resort to a manual fan controller I swear I never buy a pre-built NAS anymore. 

Wow that is disappointing!

This is exactly the path I contemplated after I found my second 416 to be too noisy. I even hovered over the buy button on Amazon for those Noctua fans, but then decided - Nah, I'll just try the 916+ instead.

So glad I did. Zero noise issue.

2 hours ago, unbalanced output said:

How do I slow down these fans?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/InLine-Infinitely-Variable-Fan-Control-Rotary-potentiometer-3-pole-5-12V-/162454227929

10 hours ago, R1200CL said:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/InLine-Infinitely-Variable-Fan-Control-Rotary-potentiometer-3-pole-5-12V-/162454227929

That's exactly what I want to avoid. I will try tinkering with the software first, but now next step is transplanting the NUC to the fanless case

@austinpop you had good luck, I am suspicious that the low voltage setting in both units is different since the hardware is the same. I couldn't find an app that allows changing the values as well as monitoring temperatures in the fly like the excellent fancontrol on windows, however it seems there is a config file that contains the fan settings information. 

7 minutes ago, unbalanced output said:

now next step is transplanting the NUC to the fanless case

http://atechfabrication.com/products/HeatSync_1200_Ultra-Slim.htm

He has some interesting solutions. I use myself. 

UPDATE

Just yesterday I received an Akasa Plato for the NUC, but thanks anyways @R1220CL for the link (ps. is this your bike?). Having transplanted the NUC into its new home, *me* looks at the messy desk and me finds a short cable labeled "low noise adapter". Me digs into the Noctua fan box and me finds User Manual. Me reads NA-RC12 adaptor makes fan spin 1050 rpm. Me realises "what an idiot". Opens case again, installs connectors, closes, pushes magic button. QUIETNESS! Mission completed, I have to get close to the unit to hear it. I'll now switch off the PC and realise how quiet the room has actually become. 

Morale: if you don't want to read the manual, at least check all that comes in the box. 

On 27.8.2017 at 3:35 PM, unbalanced output said:

ps. is this your bike?

Yes, i have a blue one. With a trailer. 

QNAP is catching up closely every day.

To avoid the noise. I look for FANLESS + SSD = Silent

I have my Synology in the office right behind me in a bookshelf and all I hear are the hard drives every once in a while but not the fan, I mean not at all. I run it in silent mode and it never gets hot. It is well over a 1000 bucks and believe me or take a look at my gear, I would consider to buy a SSD-NAS in case I would be annoyed. It did not even bug me when it was still sitting in the living room close to my stereo....

The two older white "value" Synology NAS version that I still possess make a lot more noise in comparison and that is due to the quality of the housing plus maybe a more simple fan. I keep more distance with them. 

Chris

On 8/26/2017 at 6:56 PM, R1200CL said:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/InLine-Infinitely-Variable-Fan-Control-Rotary-potentiometer-3-pole-5-12V-/162454227929

Or maybe https://help.argusmonitor.com/SMARTonNetworkAttachedStorageNAS.html

But how useful or reliable?

Maybe to minimize fan noise bite the bullet and get a bigger box-AND Xeon & ECC RAM while you're at it for better protection against bit rot and data loss?

https://www.dell.com/en-us/lp/tower-servers

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/servers-storage-and-networking/poweredge-t350-tower-server-windows-server-2022/spd/poweredge-t350/pe_t350_15326_os_vi_vp