Official Qobuz Issues Thread

3 hours ago, AMP said:

Hasn't been my experience. In all the years I've used BubbleUPnP it has allowed this box to be checked on renderers that don't advertise gapless support. I have a couple of other renderers here that don't support gapless and yet BubbleUPnP still allows the setting. One of them shows "gapless: potentially supported" (which is the same as what our devices show as well) and the other makes no mention of gapless in the renderer info. I've never seen the option greyed out in over 5 years of using the software.

 

Michael is a smart guy and he knows that a lot of UPnP devices on the market don't properly advertise gapless support so it would appear that if they show certain traits of _possibly_ supporting gapless the user is informed of such.

Ah, seeing as you go way back with the BubbleUPnP app you are probably confusing the current situation with the older versions of the app when the gapless support setting was global (and not renderer specific like it is now), so was never greyed out/disabled.

Currently, if the renderer's info dialog doesn't mention "Gapless playback potentially supported", then the renderer's individual setting for Enable gapless control is definitely greyed out and therefore disabled. See this post from a few months ago by Michael / @bubbleguuum on the xda-developers forums' BubbleUPnP thread:

https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=76152299#post76152299

Quote

@haggis999

When the 'gapless control' setting was global, it could always be enabled and gapless control was ultimately enabled or not depending on renderer supporting it.
Now, if a renderer does not support the specific UPnP command for gapless, this setting is disabled in the renderer specific settings. Some specific renderers having this command but known to not work are also blacklisted for gapless control, but not Oppo.
You can check if your renderer support this command in the 'top side menu > 3 dot menu on renderer > Info' dialog. If it does, there will be a line 'Gapless playback: potentially supported'.

Note especially the mention of "the specific UPnP command for gapless", ie, the SetNextAVTransportURI action!

3 hours ago, AMP said:

NextAVTransportURI is the variable that contains the URI of the next track to be played. SetNextAVTransportURI is the UPnP command action used to SET the value of this variable. Per the spec this variable MUST be defined in the device's AVTransport XML descriptor regardless of whether or not the device supports the feature.

However, the spec doesn't say that the SetNextAVTransportURI action itself MUST be declared in the XML descriptor's actionlist. The current version of the spec says the SetNextAVTransportURI action is 'A = Allowed', ie, not 'R = Required' (older versions of the spec say it was 'O = Optional').

I believe you are declaring the SetNextAVTransportURI action in your XML descriptor, the presence of which the BubbleUPnP app is using to test for gapless support.

If that is the case, it seems to me that you are redundantly doing so only because you are 'allowed' to, as there's obviously no functional reason to include it. So its presence when the device doesn't support gapless playback is not really in keeping with the 'logic' of the spec, if not an actual full blown misinterpretation.

3 hours ago, AMP said:

Anyways, this is WAAAY off the original topic, but I wanted to be sure that the correct information was provided so as not to cause any further confusion.

Indeed. Perhaps you and @bubbleguuum could sort this issue out in a thread of your own - it would make interesting reading (for me at least)!

@Cebolla@AMP Thanks a lot for your clarifications and suggestions. As AMP said, this is getting WAAAY off the Qobuz topic. I appreciate the background info a lot, though.

17 hours ago, left channel said:

I am getting excellent sound quality from Qobuz via the Squeezbox ecosystem, with best results out of an ultraRendu connected to a DAC via USB. I suspect a hardware upgrade may help, and am wondering if you've tried adding an Allo DigiOne S/PDIF board to your RasPi or swapping in other endpoints. An Allo Usbridge for example.

I am using a Hifiberry Digi+ Pro on my Raspberry Pi 3, so the hardware should be ok. I have generally noticed that sound quality from the Rossini is best (by a margin) using the Ethernet input vs. SPDIF or USB. "mediocre" is probably not quite objective, as the Rossini is excellent through SPDIF or USB, but stellar through Ethernet. 

@jacobacci if you have a truly critical ear then you may be less happy with a RasPi than most, whatever you do. This is interesting, perhaps we should start another thread on the hardware and software involved.

Back on topic: Qobuz has a new logo and a new color scheme across all apps.

Some users report problems with the iOS app. Android seems OK but I don't use all the features there. My Windows app is behaving normally.

The DLNA / UPnP beta is still in there tantalizing me with a list of all my devices, but no joy even with MPD on the ultraRendu. They all receive track metadata from Qobuz, but no audio.

12 minutes ago, left channel said:

Back on topic: Qobuz has a new logo and a new color scheme across all apps.

 

Some users report problems with the iOS app. Android seems OK but I don't use all the features there. My Windows app is behaving normally.

 

The DLNA / UPnP beta is still in there tantalizing me with a list of all my devices, but no joy even with MPD on the ultraRendu. They all receive track metadata from Qobuz, but no audio.

 

 

I know - I was excited to try out DLNA / UPnP with either my iOS device or my Mac, but neither Qobuz app even SEES my microRendu   Fingers crossed for more updates soon

@jhwalker I don't expect they'll add it to the mobile apps. That would be great though. For now, I'm surprised the desktop app is seeing my Squeezeboxes at all, and seeing my ultraRendu in both Squeezelite and MPD modes.

When I try to play to any one of them it seems all devices receive the metadata, but no sound. Probably LMS is confusing the heck out of the Qobuz app. It does clearly see the ultraRendu as different devices when I switch it from Squeezelite to MPD, though I've had to restart the Qobuz app so that it will rescan.

Anyway as David said this is a beta and they really should remove it, and I say they should instead actively solicit self-selected users to sign up for the beta. Meanwhile, let us know if your iOS app made it through the update OK. 

5 hours ago, left channel said:

I don't expect they'll add it to the mobile apps. That would be great though.

Surely they will.

Spotify Connect type functionality is the standard here - cast to endpoints (UPnP and Chromecast for Qobuz) from all devices that support the native app.

1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

 

Surely they will.

 

Spotify Connect type functionality is the standard here - cast to endpoints (UPnP and Chromecast for Qobuz) from all devices that support the native app.

 

Happy to be corrected on that. In fact, in the latest Android update there is a cast icon in the now playing band near the lower right of this screen, though it is grayed out here:

And circled in red on this shot of the expanded now playing screen is a new icon:

Clicking that icon brings up the following screen. I see nothing there at this time (even though the desktop app sees my Squeezebox and MPD devices, and the Android YouTube app can cast to my TiVo boxes), but "hope springs eternal"! 

7 hours ago, left channel said:

Anyway as David said this is a beta and they really should remove it, and I say they should instead actively solicit self-selected users to sign up for the beta. Meanwhile, let us know if your iOS app made it through the update OK. 

I understand that it is beta, but how many folks are really trying to use UPnP functionality from the desktop app?  In my mind as long as the release notes says the functionality is beta, I would not remove it from the desktop app and collect feedback.  I guess I am a lot more patience with stuff under beta and testing/providing feedback. If it does not work report the exact test scenario so Qobuz can recreate and start enjoying the music the normal way, until the next client update ?.

25 minutes ago, shadowlight said:

 

I understand that it is beta, but how many folks are really trying to use UPnP functionality from the desktop app?  In my mind as long as the release notes says the functionality is beta, I would not remove it from the desktop app and collect feedback.  I guess I am a lot more patience with stuff under beta and testing/providing feedback. If it does not work report the exact test scenario so Qobuz can recreate and start enjoying the music the normal way, until the next client update ?.

OK but then they should place a feedback link right there in the same menu. And that goes double for the mobile apps, because most users don't email their comments to the developers: they communicate while posting a bad rating in the store. Sad but true.

In fairness the Tidal cast feature doesn't see my devices either, although I'm clear Tidal only works with Chromecast devices and I have none of those. Maybe that is the plan for the Qobuz mobile apps too? In that case I'm back to my original opinion, kinda sorta: no full DLNA/UPnP support. (The YouTube mobile app works with the YouTube apps in my smart TVs and TiVo boxes, btw.)

21 minutes ago, left channel said:

In fairness the Tidal cast feature doesn't see my devices either, although I'm clear Tidal only works with Chromecast devices and I have none of those.

Exactly, that's the reason.

21 minutes ago, left channel said:

Maybe that is the plan for the Qobuz mobile apps too? In that case I'm back to my original opinion, kinda sorta: no full DLNA/UPnP support.

If mConnect and Bubble UPnP can work out how to play to UPnP endpoints from mobile apps, I'm sure Qobuz can work it out. Especially since @David.. Qobuz, Hi-Res Music Evangelist has said UPnP support will be fixed, I can't imagine it would be difficult for Qobuz to make this feature working for both desktop and mobile apps.

3 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Exactly, that's the reason.

 

 

If mConnect and Bubble UPnP can work out how to play to UPnP endpoints from mobile apps, I'm sure Qobuz can work it out. Especially since @David.. Qobuz, Hi-Res Music Evangelist has said UPnP support will be fixed, I can't imagine it would be difficult for Qobuz to make this feature working for both desktop and mobile apps.

 

I hope so. Again, "hope springs eternal"!  ?

2 minutes ago, left channel said:

 

I hope so. Again, "hope springs eternal"!  ?

Noted. In this case it's not false hope / wishful thinking - I'm going by what Qobuz's David himself has said (i.e. that UPnP support will be fixed).

16 hours ago, left channel said:

 

OK but then they should place a feedback link right there in the same menu. And that goes double for the mobile apps, because most users don't email their comments to the developers: they communicate while posting a bad rating in the store. Sad but true.

That makes sense.

@rickca: same with me but for 5years or longer my ‘French’ address is  Oneida, New France(which is what the Northeast would have called if the French had won on the Plains of Abraham)-I worry about changing to USA subscription(even though it would be less expensive than paying in euros) and have it be ‘different’ in some way ie albums artists etc and will my extensive playlists transfer AND what will happen to my A+3 format will that change? I personally find the search function/new releases/genres etc on A+3 better than the Qobuz app ie playlists editor picks most streamed  etc-would that change? And what is this new symbol for the desktop app a black phonograph album with a tone arm-what does it mean thanks bobbmd

2 hours ago, bobbmd said:

@rickca: same with me but for 5years or longer my ‘French’ address is  Oneida, New France(which is what the Northeast would have called if the French had won on the Plains of Abraham)-I worry about changing to USA subscription(even though it would be less expensive than paying in euros) and have it be ‘different’ in some way ie albums artists etc and will my extensive playlists transfer AND what will happen to my A+3 format will that change? I personally find the search function/new releases/genres etc on A+3 better than the Qobuz app ie playlists editor picks most streamed  etc-would that change? And what is this new symbol for the desktop app a black phonograph album with a tone arm-what does it mean thanks bobbmd

I don't know the answers.  They will need to come from @damien78 and @David.. Qobuz, Hi-Res Music Evangelist.

New Qobuz iOS update stops frequently at random and seems to drop my uRendu from the network completely.  This is not progress.  Am back using Lumin, A+.   

Anyone else experiencing trouble with recent update of iOS app?

4 minutes ago, sockpit said:

New Qobuz iOS update stops frequently at random and seems to drop my uRendu from the network completely.  This is not progress.  Am back using Lumin, A+.   

 

Anyone else experiencing trouble with recent update of iOS app?

Hi Sockpit, Sorry to hear this. I'm going to start my iOS now to try and replicate. If there are bugs, I know the team won't stop until they've resolved them. As far as the connectivity via the beta UpnP/DLNA, every unit can be different coding, which simply takes time and engineering. I still recommend waiting for the beta sign to come down before expecting it to work correctly. I think at present they are working on Chromecast. We'll get there and appreciate the excitement of "Just Work!" ? It may not seem like it, but the engineering and product teams are all working very hard to get the basic launch done and I'm sure, trying to take care of a few bugs the last update. Onward and upward. 

Thanks for being responsive.  I’m using the latest iOS Qobuz app, sending the data to my mRendu via its Shairport output.

I had this problem as soon as the app was released, then went out of town for a week, and returned to it happening again.  Could be my network, but the app had been working splendidly to Shairport prior to the last app upgrade.

best,

2 hours ago, sockpit said:

Am back using Lumin, A+

Lumin product line supports gapless Qobuz Hi-Res.  This works with Lumin app as well as other OpenHome app such as Linn Kazoo app as well.

Lumin product line also supports SetNextAVTransportURI (for JRiver gapless).

On 8/11/2018 at 10:32 AM, jacobacci said:

Hi all,

I have been doing some testing with dCS Rossini and various DLNA control points using Qobuz and NAS/Minimserver as music sources. I have attached an excel with the summary results.

 

Qobuz Windows Desktop App DLNA

The Beta DLNA implementation of the Windows Qobuz app does not work well with Rossini at all. Only basic playback seems to work. When one track ends and the next one starts the app usually switched from DLNA to WASAPI and playback via Ethernet stops. This is a no go and it looks like quite some work will be needed to get to a smooth cooperation.

Gapless playback does not work. There is around 1 sec of silence between tracks.

I have informed both dCS and Qobuz of the issues and I am awaiting their feedback.

Qobuz Desktop App via USB/WASAPI works well (as it should via USB), but alas the sound quality is mediocre.

 

mConnect 

mConnect functions better, but still some serious shortcomings. It does not display the currently played title on the Rossini display and it has (like all the others) the gapless issue. There is always that 1 second gap of silence between tracks.

 

BubbleUPnP

I liked BubbleUPnP best. It displays the currently played title on the Rossini and the Rossini’s volume control works both from within the app and via the hardware buttons on my Samsung tablet. It does not play gapless though, neither from NAS / MinimServer, nor from Qobuz.

 

Raspberry Pi / PiCorePlayer

Using a Raspberry Pi with PiCorePlayer as the renderer (plugged into SPDIF1) solves the gapless issue for Qobuz and NAS source, but sound quality is mediocre.

 

I really hope these issues get sorted out. The most annoying one for me is the lack of gapless playback - a total no go in the context of live albums or opera, where there are no breaks between tracks. DLNA does have a way to manage gapless (SetNextAVTransport function) as outlined in the attached PDF. So in principle the problem should be easy to fix.

 

DLNA Control Point Compatibility.xlsx

UPnP-av-AVTransport-v1-Service.pdf

Dear jacobacci,

could you clarify with mConnect if the "gapless issue" is both in streaming qobuz and UPnP ? 

Thanks 

17 hours ago, sockpit said:

Thanks for being responsive.  I’m using the latest iOS Qobuz app, sending the data to my mRendu via its Shairport output.

 

I had this problem as soon as the app was released, then went out of town for a week, and returned to it happening again.  Could be my network, but the app had been working splendidly to Shairport prior to the last app upgrade.

 

best,