HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

How do I start HQ Player in network mode for Linux ?

There are two start menu / launcher items, item called "HQPlayer Desktop Network Audio" is the one to use. Alternatively you can just use "--net" command line option.

M2Tech Hiface DAC should have XMOS chipset ... totally different than my EVO/Hiface1/Young DAC ...

Yes, AFAIK, it is XMOS implementation and similar to the hiFace Two. MuFi V-Link192 was first one to try at 192/24 and next one was the hiFace DAC (because it can do the highest data bandwidth of 384/32, so both are XMOS).

I'm planning to try hiFace1 too, but didn't have time for it yet. (I'll have to build the driver first)

Ahh ok, I'm using EVO that's basically an Hiface1 this is the reason BeagleBone doesn't recognize it.

Yesterday I tried to use the M2Tech procedure for Linux driver build but without success.

I will try again later ...

Max

Wow ... NAA setup is a kind of battle ... ;-)

BeagleBoneBlack should starts integrate Hiface1/EVO/Young drivers from kernel 3.12 ( currently at early stage ) I tried to install but no luck ... The trip continue

Ciao, Massimiliano

Wow ... NAA setup is a kind of battle ... ;-)

 

BeagleBoneBlack should starts integrate Hiface1/EVO/Young drivers from kernel 3.12 ( currently at early stage ) I tried to install but no luck ... The trip continue

ARM devices are not really easy to deal with, compared to PCs. But I have now built a custom kernel for BBB with hiFace driver and I can confirm that it works... (with hiFace1)

If you need another Beta tester with a decent audio setup ... I'm ready ! .... ;-)

Ciao. Massimiliano

All this is *soooo* complicated...

It's ludicrous you would think mere mortals would have *any* chance of setting up HQPLayer like this as a streaming source..

Let alone computer wiz's

As I've said before why don't you simply make HQPlayer UPnP compatible?

As I've said before why don't you simply make HQPlayer UPnP compatible?

In my test environments, HQPlayer + NAA works in even cases where UPnP doesn't work.

Getting something like drivers to work on a small embedded ARM-based computer is unrelated to any higher level protocol like UPnP or the protocol used by NAA. This is practically similar topic to installing your own custom firmware to a Mytek DAC (there's an ARM CPU in there too).

BeagleBone Black wouldn't even have the CPU power to run HQPlayer algorithms.

^ You've lost me man..

I've been following the development of your fantastic player for years now as you know..

I wish you'd just make it simple to stream.

JDI

(Just do it)

^ I *want* you to succeed. To totally dominate the CA world. To make a friggen fortune..

But to make it happen (so you can sell it) you gotta make it "child's play"....

.....So every moron customer can launch it, then stream it

But to make it happen (so you can sell it) you gotta make it "child's play"....

 

.....So every moron customer can launch it, then stream it

To make NAA work like that, it needs someone to ship it pre-installed on a hardware. Then it's at least as plug-and-play as UPnP. Now NAA is just DIY/OEM, because I don't want to start selling hardware. Dealing with all the CE, FCC and WEEE rules is too much bureaucratic headache to deal with (and it's expensive too).

To make NAA work like that, it needs someone to ship it pre-installed on a hardware. Then it's at least as plug-and-play as UPnP. Now NAA is just DIY/OEM, because I don't want to start selling hardware. Dealing with all the CE, FCC and WEEE rules is too much bureaucratic headache to deal with (and it's expensive too).

Not exactly.

You can simply sell the image of "NAA for Cubox, NAA for Beaglebone"...We just copy the image to a sd micro card and it's working!!

would make life easier...

Your great concept can reach much more people if you take a "apples" approach to usability...

You have a point, although it would be a fair amount of work for Miska to port distros for all of the various hardwares. I bought a RaspberryPi a year ago, and just got it working due to the Raspyfi distro. I have been waiting for a BBB version, but love the NAA concept. It seems to be the best of all worlds- dependent upon the algorithms of course.

Not exactly.

You can simply sell the image of "NAA for Cubox, NAA for Beaglebone"...We just copy the image to a sd micro card and it's working!!

would make life easier...

 

Your great concept can reach much more people if you take a "apples" approach to usability...

Dealing with all the CE, FCC and WEEE rules is too much bureaucratic headache to deal with (and it's expensive too).

This is *Totally* what is wrong with Europe. Totally.

..Here we have a guy with a great idea for a product, and he is hampered by "rules.."

What rules are you talking about anyway? Rules against employing people? Putting food in their mouths?

If you need committed funds there is kickstarter

If you have to. Go into business with someone elsewhere and ship them from a different country.

It's one world.

I don't get this.

Stuff the rules.

Buy the bot computer boards. And SD cards. Hire a couple of immigrant workers to put them in cases. Set up a shop on your website and "JDI"

Europe *Needs" people like you man....

So does our hobby.

If people thought like this all the time around here, there would be *no* Computeraudiophile website, no DSD downloads. Sony would have never made a DSD player etc etc..

Fark the "rules"..

Thanks to Miska support and patience, some days ago I start playing with a setup based on HQPlayer and Beagle Bone Black as NAA.

The system is still under testing against the resident ( and very good sounding ) cMP2 setup, so more comments will come in the near future ...

What I can share today is the very good sound I achieved when playing DSD files converted into a PCM DAC (96KHz capable only), a quality level really unexpected. I did the same in the past with different computer based software and I also owned physical sacd boxes as Sony SCD1 and SCD777ES ... but with NAA overall results are better than any other setup. Really interesting.

See you. Massimiliano

Thanks to Miska support and patience, some days ago I start playing with a setup based on HQPlayer and Beagle Bone Black as NAA.

 

The system is still under testing against the resident ( and very good sounding ) cMP2 setup, so more comments will come in the near future ...

 

What I can share today is the very good sound I achieved when playing DSD files converted into a PCM DAC (96KHz capable only), a quality level really unexpected. I did the same in the past with different computer based software and I also owned physical sacd boxes as Sony SCD1 and SCD777ES ... but with NAA overall results are better than any other setup. Really interesting.

 

See you. Massimiliano

Hi Massimiliano, thanks for the share.

I look forward to more results of your tests.

I once looked at cMP2 with interest, but it seems that that project freezed...or not?

 

I once looked at cMP2 with interest, but it seems that that project freezed...or not?

Yes you are right, cMP2 project is on hold, but this shouldn't scary you ... :-)

If your interest is for a very special sounding player capable to manage .flac and .wav files, with a simple but powerful GUI and without any whistle and bells ... cMP could be your friend. I started computer audio using Apple computers ( I have some of ) and all available audio software but I never be able to achieve a top level sound, some harshness was always present ... At one point in time I decided to implement a "tuned" cMP2 system using a laptop computer with linear power supply, and finally the idea to come back to a physical CD transport went away from my mind ...

Recently, on a local cMP2 forum I read some positive comments about HQ Player with NAA implementation, so I decided to explore this approach just for fun and to learn something about Linux as well ...

So, stay tuned. Have a nice day. Max

Hi Massimiliano, thanks for the share.

I look forward to more results of your tests....

First of all my apologize for my poor vocabulary, it isn't easy to describe audio sensations in own language, so do the task in foreign language is really a challenge …

cMP2 system = Lenovo T410 i5, SSD, Windows XP nLite reduced with all suggested cMP tweaks up to SuperTeak nr.5, external linear power supply > M2Tech EVO + EVO Clock both powered by external linear PS. All power and usb cables homemade using double shielded wires.

HQ system = Lenovo T410 i5, standard HD, Linux Ubuntu 12.04 real-time, switching power system, NAA BeagleBone Black Debian 7.0 linear power supply > EVO and collaterals as before.

Then the remain part of the system = DAC Burmester 980SRC, tube amp BAT VK75, solid amp Bow Wazoo, Wilson Audio Sophia 2 … Gryphon signal and power cables.

As overall personal comment, both systems represent top level way to play audio files, I previously had Apple based systems (many) and tried most of well known audio software, but none of them was able to achieve the same level of satisfaction; so all following non positive comments refers to very little lacks.

cMP sound - The stage is always behind the speakers, stage width is very good and front line performers are well defined, space occupied by the rest of performers results slightly limited in depth, so the perception is to have the slightly less air. This characteristic has good impact with Jazz music. cMP reaction of sound attack is slightly smooth, vocalist benefit from this characteristic and voices doesn't have any harshness. I'm particularly sensible to sibilants, with cMP sibilants are present during reproduction as they are present in real life voices; at the same time every voice nuance is there. I really like it. In relation to settings, I always use cMP with SRC algorithm and 2x upsampling of 16/44,1 or highest possible native resolution.

HQ/NAA - Stage is better than cMP, wide, depth and height are perfect. Every performer is under a light spot, well defined, clear, polished … The noise level appears to be very little, so every sound is there. The perception of air between performers is almost perfect. This characteristic perfectly match with Rock performances ( my favorite genre ), with Classical music and in general with every live event ( opera, choirs are astonishing). HQ sound attacks are faster than cMP, slightly sibilants "s" appears but it's really a minor difference compared to cMP and I've the perception that's record depending, sometimes I prefer HQ while with other recording I prefer cMP ( hope Miska could produce an "s" algorithm that slightly smooth sibilants while unchange other part of the spectrum … ah ah ah ). In relation to settings HQ is a "system" you have plenty of possibilities, at the moment I'm using poli-sync + NS4 with 2x upsampling of 16/44,1 or highest possible native resolution. As mentioned before the possibility to translate DSD>PCM represent a nice to have, really wonderfult result but I sold out my SACD disks so I just did a couple of test with well known tracks. Pink Floyd TDSOTM and WYWH never sounded as with HQ in my system … Really impressive. You just have to consider that DSD>PCM really challenge my i5 CPU processor, usage is always around 75% so computer fans must be low noise.

GUI - cMP user interface should be considered as a CD display mapped to a computer screen, it is very basic; while initially scary me ( remember I was used to play with iTunes database with all whistle and bells softwares ), now I consider the gui a good approach. I prefere a well implemented non graphical approach.

With HQ you have two different options, graphical or explorer like, I use the second one, I didn't configure any path in the database ( I've more than 3000 CDs ) so I'm very happy with drag 'n Drop approach … Left side of the screen HQ interface, right side disk folders … Just drag CD you want into HQ box … that's it.

As a summary. HQ/NAA is a very good audio system for the money and I'm very happy with it. At this point of time I don't need to do a choice between HQ or cMP, this is the good part of computer audio … I built a dual-boot system and I can easily choose one depending of listening session or wheather conditions … ;-)

Have a nice day. Massimiliano - Italy

PS. Improvement suggestions for HQ.

- Offline Conversion System. I mean having the possibility to translate a PCM96/88 into a DSD128 or DSD256 and then back PCM96/88. Let's explore how to improve sound with algorithms.

- .CUE reader in order to have correct track names as managed by cMP or other

Wow!

This is what I was hoping for and much more. Thanks Massimiliano for your great report.

HQ sound attacks are faster than cMP, slightly sibilants "s" appears but it's really a minor difference compared to cMP and I've the perception that's record depending

I think my Quads will be gentler on those sibilants, but generally, While I agree that recordings are determinant, some system just put nasty sibililants, but clearly that is not the case.

You have one great system with one of my favourite loudspeaker, the Sophia's!

As a summary. HQ/NAA is a very good audio system for the money and I'm very happy with it.

I look forward to try HQPlayer again in the future, once I find a way to communicate with the Cubox NAA installed.

My "wet dream" for HQPlayer is that the great processing and flexibility of the signal processing could be mated with

a nice database like Minimserver on a NAS.

I think a good NAS has enough power to run the HQPlayer, and I wish I could simply continue to use my favorite control

points, but reading from a server where the tracks would be "pre-processed" by HQPlayer, before sent to the NAA.

In that way we would remove the HQPlayer laptop from the equation, making a simpler landscape...

In terms of interface, I certainly grown accustomed to iPAD control points, and Lumin is improving fast.

I think if Miska make his product accessible from other control points it could reach much more people that, like me, think that HQPlayer is not that great as a library/playlist interface (besides not being able to run on iPAD)...

cMP2 system = Lenovo T410 i5, SSD, Windows XP nLite reduced with all suggested cMP tweaks up to SuperTeak nr.5, external linear power supply > M2Tech EVO + EVO Clock both powered by external linear PS. All power and usb cables homemade using double shielded wires.

Massimiliano, some more questions, about the tweaks...if I may..

1) by "SuperTeak nr.5" do you mean up to (and including) point 5 here:

cMP² | CMP / 07Optimisations

2) So you adapted optimizations to the laptop environment, and since you connect to EVO via USB, you do not use Lenovo's audio card and did not upgrade it, correct?

3) what was the external linear power supply used? any will do or a specific make is recommended?

Finally a comment on M2tech: I tested at home the same stack (evo, clock, power supply).

The clock was inconvenient to me because I had to manually change the sample rate.

But in your case it does not apply, right? As you do the upsampling at the cMP player...??

Massimiliano, some more questions, about the tweaks...if I may..

 

1) by "SuperTeak nr.5" do you mean up to (and including) point 5 here:

cMP² | CMP / 07Optimisations

 

...

 

But in your case it does not apply, right? As you do the upsampling at the cMP player...??

I can help you on that point as Massimiliano is a forumer on the Italian cMP2 forum I founded.

The Super Tweaks are extensions of normal cMP2 optimisations.

You can find the details here: Super Tweaks on Italian cMP2 forum (translated)

By the way, in the same forum we have another thread on HQPlayer and discussing NAA application.

I am sure Massimiliano will fill you up on the other two points.

From your previous post, are you having problems setting up Cubox NAA?

I can help you on that point as Massimiliano is a forumer on the Italian cMP2 forum I founded.

The Super Tweaks are extensions of normal cMP2 optimisations.

You can find the details here: Super Tweaks on Italian cMP2 forum (translated)

 

By the way, in the same forum we have another thread on HQPlayer and discussing NAA application.

 

I am sure Massimiliano will fill you up on the other two points.

 

From your previous post, are you having problems setting up Cubox NAA?

Thanks a lot!

Yes, I had problems with Cubox NAA, Miska helped, we did all necessary, the cubox had all installed and the HQPlayer was not seeing it.

Since I installed HQPlayer on a "work pc", which might have some restrictions, I will later install on another laptop...I have not given up!.

Hey...this is nice, I will practice my italian.

Pasta lover here...

Thanks a lot!

Yes, I had problems with Cubox NAA, Miska helped, we did all necessary, the cubox had all installed and the HQPlayer was not seeing it.

Since I installed HQPlayer on a "work pc", which might have some restrictions, I will later install on another laptop...I have not given up!.

 

Hey...this is nice, I will practice my italian.

Pasta lover here...

A friend of mine is probably going to make available his working Cubox NAA installation. It has Evo driver inside. I am not sure that it is what you use. Anyhow, I will let you know when it is available for you to try it.

A friend of mine is probably going to make available his working Cubox NAA installation. It has Evo driver inside. I am not sure that it is what you use. Anyhow, I will let you know when it is available for you to try it.

Wow! Thanks a lot.

Very generous of you.

I am not using a evo at the moment...in the future I will test it with a Geek Pulse, connecting directly to start with.

For the moment I would test it's digital output to my lyngdorf via optical...just to try to understand it's "level" of sound quality...

Massimiliano, some more questions, about the tweaks...if I may..

 

1) by "SuperTeak nr.5" do you mean up to (and including) point 5 here:

cMP² | CMP / 07Optimisations

 

2) So you adapted optimizations to the laptop environment, and since you connect to EVO via USB, you do not use Lenovo's audio card and did not upgrade it, correct?

 

3) what was the external linear power supply used? any will do or a specific make is recommended?

 

Finally a comment on M2tech: I tested at home the same stack (evo, clock, power supply).

The clock was inconvenient to me because I had to manually change the sample rate.

But in your case it does not apply, right? As you do the upsampling at the cMP player...??

Hi Mike …

1) As mentioned by Bibo01 … tweaks are listed in the italian cMP forum here

2) Yes, I did some tests with various laptop computers ( some Dell, some Lenovo … ). As you can imagine this isn't a full cMP implementation that typically requires specific board/memories etc.etc. but I did my best with laptops … BIOS is the bad part of the story, you can't downvolt memories or downclock the cpu but you still have the possibility to disable many peripherals as ports, wifi … Then battery removed, cd-rom reader removed as well … and due to fact I use EVO integrated audio is disabled as suggested by Windows tuning procedure listed in aforementied link.

3) For linear PS I used various equipments from lab environment but at the end I'm currently using an ancient Philips PE1542 … quick and dirty. Now I'm using one section of it 10V for EVO/Clock and another section 5V for Beagle Bone Black NAA

Yes I agree, EVO main issue is the manual sample rate change. I usually listen 16/44,1 files up sampled to 88,2 so it isn't a huge problem … I would like to move to Berkeley Audio USB but it's too expensive.

Have a nice day. Massimiliano

...Yes, I had problems with Cubox NAA, Miska helped, we did all necessary, the cubox had all installed and the HQPlayer was not seeing it.

I had some problem me as well with Debian and EVO but thanks to Miska support all solved here !

Hope you can experiment HQ+NAA soon because I strongly suggest it, really good sounding system … Rock performances are outstanding ( I'm a Classic Rock fan ). I'm here with my MacBookPro writing the comments with Atomic Roosters sounding behind the Sophia … :-) … Glorious results with Classical music as well …

Have a nice day. Massimiliano