preference research

I was reading a Quora post on whether audiophile USB cables make an audible difference, and one of the commenters said he was a scientist working for a company doing research on what variables affect preference when testing food. I.e. appearance of the packaging, etc.

It occurred to me that he mentions preference, but the experts in music, instrument design, and audio equipment design don't just have a preference among multiple sounds, but evaluate it... in other words describe its properties like (to use a few widely known) brightness, rolled off, bass tightness, etc. It might not be just a choice of two devices, and there might not be a clear preference. For instance someone might say that one device is good with a particular speaker while another device is best for another speaker.

So I'm wondering if any research tries to correlate, say, the appearance of an audio unit with its described sound qualities. 

4 minutes ago, mike1127 said:

So I'm wondering if any research tries to correlate, say, the appearance of an audio unit with its described sound qualities. 

Given the cost of such research, and the possible benefits / recouping the cost, I can’t imagine such research exists. 

That would be some interesting research for sure, but I also don't think it exists. People are weird beings that think they're using logic when in reality, we don't very often. Economists, for example, try to make peoples economic decisions fit into nice neat math, but as all know the reality is far messier. IMO, preferences are likely a huge part of decision making, are likely extremely subjective, and not at all based on a logical decision making process. Of course, this is all my untested opinion so take that for all it's worth. I can tell you that the subjective unattractiveness kept me away from the Atma-Sphere MP-3 pre-amp for a long time, but once I actually listened to one, I was blown away and the fact I think it's unattractive no longer mattered. That's an indicator that preferences matter, and sometimes can be challenged and changed.

edit: Infact, though some may argue till they're blue, I would posit that preferences are the only thing that matter no matter how much we try to fool ourselves into thinking otherwise.

1 hour ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

IMO, preferences are likely a huge part of decision making, are likely extremely subjective, and not at all based on a logical decision making process. Of course, this is all my untested opinion so take that for all it's worth.

Well, what I'm saying is that a large part of what musicians, instrument makers, and so on do is not make a choice of preference, but evaluate the properties of a sound. They may end up having no clear preference among several devices. It may depend on what those devices are matched with (music, other devices, etc.) They can still describe the qualities or properties of each sound. 

Audio science is a set of models. It appears those models are based on asking participants to either (1) state if a sound changed, or (2) state a preference among two sounds. That's not a good model of how musicians or instrument makers work. I use these two examples because no one disputes that the best musicians or instruments are different than and better than lesser ones. It's not controversial like some audio is.

1 hour ago, AudioDoctor said:

I can tell you that the subjective unattractiveness kept me away from the Atma-Sphere MP-3 pre-amp for a long time, but once I actually listened to one, I was blown away and the fact I think it's unattractive no longer mattered. That's an indicator that preferences matter, and sometimes can be challenged and changed.

 

 

It is interesting that your expectations were negative and you instead loved it. I've looked a little bit into preference research in food, and there are general conclusions such as less visually appealing packaging is perceived as worse-tasting food. There are more conclusions in food research how the package shape or color affects taste expectation. There's really no explanation for why you would find the worse-looking device more appealing. The model would just have to introduce randomness... to explain it... the model would just say, "Occasionally people for some unknown reason like the sound of the ugly thing or the taste of the food in the ugly package."

But that's no explanation. What musicians and instrument makers can accomplish, I think, is so coherent that it demands an explanation other than randomness.

Note also that you probably can describe the MP-3 in more specific terms than "I'm blown away." You're not just saying "A is better than B" but you're describing the qualities of the MP-3 in specific terms. Also you're probably comparing more than 2 devices... you've surely heard more than two preamplifiers, so this isn't just putting two preamplifiers back-to-back and choosing one. 

31 minutes ago, mike1127 said:

Well, what I'm saying is that a large part of what musicians, instrument makers, and so on do is not make a choice of preference, but evaluate the properties of a sound. They may end up having no clear preference among several devices. It may depend on what those devices are matched with (music, other devices, etc.) They can still describe the qualities or properties of each sound. 

Sure, but I have many variations of Handel's 4 Seasons performed by different orchestras with various conductors, each is different than the other. We all like to think we evaluate these things using cold hard facts, but the reality is, we don't. Listeners will even have their preference of which performance they like more than the others. Every conductor has their own "interpretation" of the music and how it should be performed. If they were all the same, that would be kind of boring, but also it shows that try as we might, we all have preferences that we use to make decisions and fool ourselves into thinking they are facts instead.

Listeners have preferences, about to start a fight here, even the Objectivists... To say otherwise is to lie to yourself. If there is one preference I think we can all agree on with regards to audio equipment it is that we prefer quality. However, how we individually perceive quality, differs among us. I bet that within every generic description of a sound, you would find differing preferences for it among audiophiles. Just like quality. Take tone. I like tone. Someone else may hear my system and say, that's too much tone, even though we both agree a good tone is important. But, what's tone anyway? It's too subjective a term and that leads to disagreement and preferences rather than cold hard facts. We can't even agree on what IS good sound, how on earth could we ever agree on what differences make music better, or worse?

10 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Sure, but I have many variations of Handel's 4 Seasons performed by different orchestras with various conductors, each is different than the other. We all like to think we evaluate these things using cold hard facts, but the reality is, we don't. Listeners will even have their preference of which performance they like more than the others. Every conductor has their own "interpretation" of the music and how it should be performed. If they were all the same, that would be kind of boring, but also it shows that try as we might, we all have preferences that we use to make decisions and fool ourselves into thinking they are facts instead.

I think we agree on the important stuff. I would just use different words. 

I have studied classical composition in music school, and I have analyzed compositions. In an analysis we are looking for patterns we can name and point to. But I've never thought my preference was done with cold hard facts. Ultimately it's a mystery why Bach's fugue in C-sharp minor from WTC Book 1 is so appealing to me. There's a LOT of mystery in music and I've never denied that. The other students and musicians never denied that. 

Some musicians or critics have staked out hard positions about what is good and what sucks. Stravinsky used to mock composers he didn't like. That might be what you're talking about. A person mocking other musicians seems to have a "better than thou" air to them. 

But I learned how silly this looks. I especially learned that as I got older and saw my preferences change in unexpected ways. The problem with mocking another composer today is that I might like them in 5 years.

10 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Listeners also have preferences, about to start a fight here, even the Objectivists... To say otherwise is to lie to yourself. If there is one preference I think we can all agree on with regards to audio equipment it is that we prefer quality. However, how we individually perceive quality, differs among us.

I think the Objectivists agree people have preferences. What they probably do is omit that from their theories entirely. It's unexplainable by scientific theory, therefore "we will not try to explain anything about it with our theories."

While I think preference is ultimately a mystery, it can be investigated from a first person perspective. There is a philosophy called Phenomenalogy. It's the science of the inner experience. This would take a lot to explain so I'll leave it there for now.