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  • JoeWhip
    JoeWhip

    And Now For Some Serious Good Schiit (Skoll Yggy!)

     

     

        

        Audio: Listen to this article.

     

     

     

    I think it must be quite obvious that I am a fan of what the folks are doing at Schiit. Two new products from them have piqued my interest, a new Yggdrasil+ MIB DAC and gulp, a new more advanced phonostage dubbed Skoll. I know, vinyl is not a word that shall be uttered in these here parts. I could  hear Chris groaning all the way over here on the East Coast 🤢 when I suggested it. However, once I assured him that I could use my audio superpowers to squeeze Atmos out of vinyl using MQA, he was all in. So, I requested some review samples and put these products through their paces. Issues do come up in the real world sometimes which have delayed this piece somewhat, but I am now ready to rumble.

     

     

    YGGDRASIL+ MIB

     

    yggyplus-silver-front-1920.jpg

     

    As I am sure you will recall, after success with the original Yggdrasil and the iterations thereof such as the analog 2 board and Unison USB, Schiit released two new flavors of Yggdrasil, dubbed More is Less or MIL and Less is More or LIM. Chris was present at a blind shootout along with some other writers at the Schiiter, where they judged the three DACs. You can read about that here. I requested a review sample of the LIM to pit it against my original OG with the analog 2 board and Unison USB. You can read that review here.

     

    As I noted in the review, despite the fact that the LIM used four 16 bit TI DAC8812 chips vs. the four 20 bit Analog Devices chips in the OG, I felt that the LIM was the superior sounding DAC. I guess quite a few folks agreed as the MIL DAC, the preferred DAC of Jason Stoddard, was discontinued. Since then, Schiit announced the Yggdrasil +, a fully modular Version of the OG and LIM, which makes upgrading the DAC far easier for the end user and makes for a nicer form factor as well. However, all good things must end, and as the OG’s Analog Devices chips were discontinued and obviously harder to come buy, the OG was discontinued as well, replaced by the More is Less or MIB which uses four TI ultra precision 20 bit DAC110018 and which costs a cool $400 more than the LIM. Are those extra four bits of resolution worth it? Read on.

     

    Before getting to my sonic impressions I wanted to state the equipment used in formulating those impressions. My speakers are 1997 vintage Vandersteen 3A signatures being driven by a SMc Audio DNA 1 fully updated amp which in turn fed by a new build SMc Audio TLC-2 pre amp. More details about the SMc Audio products can be found here and here. I am using a MacBook Pro M1 chip laptop to feed all three DACs (the OG, LIM and MIB) via a DH Labs usb c to b cable. All cabling is vintage audioquest and all power by Essential Sound Products. 

     

    In my formal LIM review, I described the sonic differences I perceived as follows:

     

    As for the sound differences between the LIM and the OG in my system, the LIM was the clear winner. Yes, less is apparently more. When I was a kid we used to hear about the importance of the 3 R’s, reading, ‘riting and ‘rithmetic. Well with the LIM, we have a new set of 3 R’s, resolving, relaxing and right. While the two DACs share a common sound, clear differences are heard in direct comparisons between the two. The LIM has a smoother sound. It is less edgy in the treble. The midrange is a tad warmer. The music, and I hate to use this term, seems to arise out of a blacker background, one that has less noise. Perhaps this reduction in noise results in the sonic improvements I hear. 


    I hear the same differences between the MIB and the LIM, but this time the MIB is clearly better, at least to these ears. I am mindful of the old adage that numbers never lie. Perhaps, but perhaps they do not always tell the full story. Despite resolution of only 16 bits vs. 20, the 16 bit DAC sounded best. Whatever TI did to modify the 20 bit chips, they made a significant improvement. I hear a much smoother sounding DAC across all frequencies. This DAC is so easy to listen to, for hours, being so natural and non fatiguing yet very detailed and dynamic. There is just more detail presented by the MIB even with very familiar recordings. There is a very open midrange with a greater sense of front to back depth. Front to back depth was never the Yggy’s strongest feature. However, the MIB  improves on this yet keeps the expansive side to side soundstage. There is even greater separation between each object in the sound field. Bass is deeper yet more controlled. You hear more of the woody character of an upright bass. Pianos have a more accurate piano sound more clearly conveying the complex sound of the instrument. Guitar licks have more bite, kick drums more kick, with more accurate sounding cymbals and high hats on a drum kit.

     

    There are a few recordings that best illustrate the improvements I am hearing with the MIB DAC.


    mel.jpgFirst is An Evening at Charlie’s featuring Mel Torme and George Shearing on Concord. Mel Torme is one of my favorite jazz singers. He and George Shearing put out a series of excellent releases on Concord as a duo and with a trio. This release, recorded at an intimate club in DC, is my favorite. One track in particular, I’ll Be Tired of You, penned by Arthur Schwartz and E.Y. Harburg, was the song my wife and I picked out as our song at our wedding. My dad was a professional musician and suggested that I copy this song on a cassette so he could give it to the band that was performing  at our reception. They did a decent job but at the wedding the band leader said my lord, could I have picked out a harder arrangement? Listening to this track through this DAC tells you why. George Shearing is simply playing beautiful and very sophisticated frills behind the vocal beautifully supporting Mel’s phrasing. There is clear space between the vocal and piano allowing you to clearly follow either. This is the type of experience I enjoy with this little hobby of ours.


    scot hamilton.jpgThe next recording is Scott Hamilton at Pizza Express Live London on PE records. I was fortunate enough to attend a performance by Scott and his band at this very venue in SoHo  on January 2nd. This recording takes me right back to that evening. The recording wonderfully captures the big lush sound of Scott’s tenor we heard that night. Thrilling stuff.


    melody.jpgFinally, and I could go on and on, is the Melody Gardot recording, Sunset in the Blue. In particular the first track, If You Love Me. The vocal is placed beautifully in front of the accompaniment with a string arrangement that has a lushness that the LIM can’t match, as good as it is.

     

    To sum up, it is my opinion that the MIB DAC is the finest version of the Yggdrasil that Schiit has yet produced. It does everything that I love about high end sound right and is well worth the extra premium. The fact that it is capable of being so easily updatable with the new + form factor is icing on the cake. Very highly recommended.

     

    live.jpg

     

     

     

     

    SKOLL

     

    skoll front 1920.jpg

     

     

    Must people who know me know that I am a digital guy. Over the last ten years or so, my listening has been exclusively digital 100%. However, like anyone who first got into this hobby for real in the early 1980’s, I have accumulated over 500 LPs which I still own. As I noted in my TLC-2 review, I did not opt to have a phono card included as I thought I would add a separate phono stage for less money. In particular I had in mind the Schiit Skoll that I had heard at a friend’s place with Veloce electronics and the new MC Audiotech speakers. The phono stage sounded very good to me, especially given its price of $399. It seemed to me to punch way above its weight, having heard some phono stages costing many thousands of dollars.
     
    The turn table I planed to pair it with was my VPI HW 19 Mark IV from 1992. The table is equipped with a rebuilt and retired Kuzma Stogi tone arm and a Clearaudio cartridge. A picture of the set up is below.

     

    vpi.jpg

     


    rack schiit.jpgWhen the Skoll arrived, I had to reacquaint myself with the joys of vinyl. The Skoll seems to be very versatile with numerous settings for MM and MC cartridges, loads and outputs all easily set via a handy dandy little remote. Settings can even be adjusted on the fly. Thankfully, the turntable was able to function, as best as I could tell, flawlessly. It has been awhile after all. I have quite a few albums that I enjoy on vinyl only and it was quite a bit of fun to  listen to these records through my updated system. Yes, even though I had to get up over and over and turn the platters over let alone clean the records before each spin. To get good sound, one has to take the good with the  bad or in this case, the inconvenient. I was quite impressed with the sound reproduction through the Skoll on virtually all albums I played.

     

    The real test was to pit the Skoll up against the MIB with recordings I had on both vinyl and digital. I picked a few pictured below. While I did not have the DCC CD release of Nat King Cole’s Love’s the Thing, I was always very impressed with the sound quality of this pressing so included it for evaluation. The results?

     

    whip vinyl.jpg

     


    Well, the head to head comparisons were closer than I expected. Tonally the presentations were similar. Details and space through the Skoll was very good. Where the Skoll fell a bit short was in the noise floor which was higher. Some low level detail, like Jeff Hamilton’s low level stick work on In a Mellow Tone on Montreux Alexander was a bit obscured, clearly by the surface noise. I also thought that the bass was not as deep and detailed as on the MIB. Sibilance on vocals was just a bit more pronounced through the Skoll. While I could not hear as deep into the sound field with the Skoll, the presentation of familiar recordings on their vinyl counterparts was still damn impressive.

     

    As for the Nat King Cole recording, it was as good as I remembered it. His voice hung in the room right before you. Quite spooky an experience The strings were never harsh as string recordings from that time period often are. Not quite as sumptuous as on the Melody Gardot album, but very close.

     

    The only real drawback I encountered with the Skoll was low level hum. I was not able to get rid of it. It is possible that it is the fault of the turntable. However, it was low enough that I never heard it when actually playing music. Therefore, it never negatively affected my enjoyment of the music produced through the Skoll. All in all, I thoughtfully enjoyed my foray back into the world of vinyl with the Skoll and look forward to rediscovery some of the old chestnuts in my vinyl collection in the future. The Skoll is quite a bargain.

     

    BTW, do not ask for the Atmos files extracted from vinyl using MQA. NASA and the DIA has not permitted me to distribute them. Pity.😎

     

    Joe Whip

     

     

     

    Product Information:
     
    Schiit Audio - Yggdrasil More is Better (MiB): Price $2,699 (black) / $2,799 (silver)
    Yggdrasil More is Better (MiB): Product Page
    Purchase: Where to Buy

     

    Schiit Audio - Skoll: Price $399
    Skoll: Product Page
    Purchase: Where to Buy

     

     

     

     

     

     




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    Thanks for the article @JoeWhip, well kind of. Vinyl? Really? Only joking. As Sheryl Crow says, "If it makes you happy, it can't be that bad." :~)

     

    Yggdrasil is still one of my all-time favorite DACs. I feel like Yggy is a franchise now, with a following and performance to match. Plus, the price is ridicilously inexpensive!

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    I have had my Yggy upgraded to the MiB DACs as well and my impression echoes yours. I never made the interim step to either of the two that came before. I like it so much that despite my McIntosh MAC7200 having a DAC built in that can accept higher resolution, I use the Yggy because I like the sound more. Something I did not see mentioned is the new Yggy with the new DAC also has a NOS mode which makes using it with HQPlayer, better? Schiits filter is damn good , however I find it works best on CD resolution files and I like what HQPlayer can do with High Res files more.

     

    Great review.

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    Good point Audiodoctor. I do not have HQPlayer and frankly, have never preferred NOS on a Schiit DAC to their filter. I send a bit perfect stream to the Yggy and let it do its magic.  

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    I admire the company and the quality products they put out at reasonable prices.

    The shit puns get a little tiresome though.

     

     

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    Fascinating that a digital company such as Schiit would release a phono stage. 

     

    Doubly interesting that it would be only $400 and include both MM and MC.  Vinyl "for the rest of us"...

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    18 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    Thanks for the article @JoeWhip, well kind of. Vinyl? Really? Only joking. As Sheryl Crow says, "If it makes you happy, it can't be that bad." :~)

     

    Now, now.  There are still a few groups/records where vinyl still rules.  The Beatles, early Kinks, Zombies, Yardbirds, Queen, Talking Heads, are best heard on original or remastered vinyl over their crummy to mediocre digital counterparts.  If you want to be able to actually listen to Lindsey Buckingham's "Gift of Screws" you need the all analog vinyl.  The CD is an abysmal 6 on the meter.

     

    That being said, I have bought 3 records in the last year.  The vinyl revolution is stalled, at best.

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    1 minute ago, Kimo said:

    The Beatles, early Kinks, Zombies, Yardbirds, Queen, Talking Heads, are best heard on original or remastered vinyl over their crummy to mediocre digital counterparts.

    Not sure what digital counterparts you are listening to. The Beatles remasters are excellent and the remixes totally outclass the originals - not even close.

    I have very good sounding versions of the Kinks, Zombies and Yardbirds.

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    18 minutes ago, firedog said:

    Not sure what digital counterparts you are listening to. The Beatles remasters are excellent and the remixes totally outclass the originals - not even close.

    I have very good sounding versions of the Kinks, Zombies and Yardbirds.

     

    The Beatles remasters are at best fair on digital.  The analog mono vinyl box beats them all.  Regarding the remasters in stereo.  The CDs are bested by the high resolution stick, which is bested by the vinyl, if only due to the vinyl having slightly better mastering choices.

     

    The early German/British CDs for the Kinks PYE catalog are the best digital out there.  Everything else kind of sucks, so unless you have those, you don't have good sounding digital versions.  The all analog mono vinyl box is your best by a bit over those.

     

    I would like to know where you found good sounding, i.e. not terribly sourced or overly compressed versions of the Yardbirds.  I have had zero luck.  Some of the earliest Rhino stuff is probably best, I guess, but the transfers are dated.

     

    The Zombie Heaven set is pretty good, but honestly the original vinyl has a whole different vibe with way more billow in the voice.

     

    As for the Beatles remixes, I have Pepper (compressed and nothing special), Abbey Road (Seriously with that bass?), and Let It Be (Fine, I guess).  Revolver is literally a joke of an effort, though the mono vinyl in the box is a nice alternative to that found in the box set.  

     

     

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    1 hour ago, Kimo said:

    Now, now.  There are still a few groups/records where vinyl still rules.  The Beatles, early Kinks, Zombies, Yardbirds, Queen, Talking Heads, are best heard on original or remastered vinyl over their crummy to mediocre digital counterparts.  If you want to be able to actually listen to Lindsey Buckingham's "Gift of Screws" you need the all analog vinyl.  The CD is an abysmal 6 on the meter.

     

    27 minutes ago, Kimo said:

     

    As for the Beatles remixes, I have Pepper (compressed and nothing special), Abbey Road (Seriously with that bass?), and Let It Be (Fine, I guess).  Revolver is literally a joke of an effort, though the mono vinyl in the box is a nice alternative to that found in the box set.  

     

    Exactly.  The technical vinyl vs digital debate is silly, or at least moot, unless of course you are an engineer.  If you're just a guy sitting at home, the real test is which version of a particular album is best.  No doubt CDs have higher potential for dynamic range, just to pick one obvious aspect.  But there is also no doubt that if you are listening to rock on digital, you are likely listening to lower dynamic range than you would be if hearing that same album on vinyl.

     

    And of course, some of this is a matter of taste.  It's ironic that the Giles Martin Beatles has done so well among many who would normally profess to want higher dynamic range and/or sound truer to the original.  Compression is powerful and seductive, but it's a one night stand, not true love.

     

    I will look up the Lindsey Buckingham--thanks

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    26 minutes ago, PeterG said:

    The technical vinyl vs digital debate is silly, or at least moot, unless of course you are an engineer.  If you're just a guy sitting at home, the real test is which version of a particular album is best.

    100% agree. 
     

    There are pros and cons to all releases on all formats. The best part is that we have choices. 

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    You can never have enough Schiit!

     

    I have my eyes on the Kraken!  I want to feed from the Urd + Syn  5.1 from Redbook CD!

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    Bobfa, you going to release the Kraken anytime soon?

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    Only if Schiit will send me one to test!!!  Talk about reducing complexity...

     

    It AIN'T ATMOS !   But it's GREAAAAAAT

     

     

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    57 minutes ago, bobfa said:

    Only if Schiit will send me one to test!!!  Talk about reducing complexity...

     

    It AIN'T ATMOS !   But it's GREAAAAAAT

     

     

     

    A little too close to Kellog's TM lines, just a thought.

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    I'm mostly a digital guy but recently got a Pro-ject Automat A2 for nostalgia vibes. I got a Skoll to go with it. The first thing I had was this loud hum. Loud enough that it could be heard from 7 feet away. It was always there even when the TT was not actually playing. Music did mask the hum to an extent, but it was annoying nevertheless.

     

    Then I found, on the turntable, that if I touch the RCA left channel outer sheath and the ground pin with a single finger together, the hum would disappear. If I disconnected the TT from power but kept the Skoll powered on the hum would disappear. This meant that the TT was at fault. Likely the cheap power supply was the source of noise. I could have opted for an iFi low-noise power supply that I have for a couple of other elements in my chain but that is another $115. 

     

    Eventually, I did a couple of things. Connect the ground wire from TT to Skoll, as usual, but also, connect the ground from the Skoll to a water pipe below the nearest sink! I used 12 gauge speaker wire that I had lying around. Then, I connected the left channel RCA plug's outer sheath to the ground terminal on the TT using a self-adhesive copper tape.

     

    Voila, no hum, nothing, nada. 

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    Thanks for the suggestion. I will do some more trouble shooting.

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    11 minutes ago, jrobbins50 said:

    Just remember folks, vinyl and digital can live together. I digitize my vinyl to 24/192 so HQP can apply my Audiolense convolution filters and upscale to DSD128. Best of both worlds! JCR 

     

    I tried that extensively over a long period of time. . I invested in various top of the line studio analog to digital converters, several highly regarded microphone preamps so I could do the RIAA in software along with the best software, Mitch Barnett  convolution filters derived from the best software and microphones to analyze my room and speakers, and very high end DACS. 

     

    Yes,  it was better in all the ways that one would expect. However, at the end of the day, the vinyl magic was gone. Whatever it is that your brain reacts to that truly connects you to the music was missing. It was indeed excellent sound , but  I was listening to excellent sound instead of excellent music. 

     

    Even though he focused on the speakers and implied what he heard was despite the fact he was listening to vinyl instead of because he was. I can't help but think these reactions from Chris recently about a vinyl system at Munich with Cessaro horns were due in large part to the fact he was listening to vinyl. 


     

    Quote

     

    The sound was absolutely luscious and larger than life.

     

    I was stunned by the dynamics and texture reproduced by the Cessaro horns. The presentation was huge and produced the most concert-like experience I’ve ever heard. I sat through entire orchestral pieces, thinking it was just like listening to my hometown Minnesota Orchestra live at Orchestra Hall.

     

    A drum kit playing through this system sounded like an actual drum kit was in the room. It was powerful and a touch scary. This system was capable of reproducing certain musical aspects like no other system I heard at the show

     

    Overall I was surprised, delighted, and a bit scared by what this system could reproduce

    .

     

     

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    " I invested in various top of the line studio analog to digital converters"

     

    Any recommendations regarding ADCs?

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    2 hours ago, bbosler said:

    Even though he focused on the speakers and implied what he heard was despite the fact he was listening to vinyl instead of because he was. I can't help but think these reactions from Chris recently about a vinyl system at Munich with Cessaro horns were due in large part to the fact he was listening to vinyl. 

    This makes no sense to me. 
     

    The flaws of vinyl couldn’t be ignored and held the system back. 

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    22 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

    The flaws of vinyl couldn’t be ignored and  held the system back

     

    The main point of my post was that digitizing vinyl is not "the best of both worlds, 

     

    but since since you responded to the other part... ..

     

     held the system back is pure conjecture. You did not hear it with digital, so you are guessing that vinyl held it back. Another equally valid guess is that, despite the flaws, playing vinyl allowed it to perform at the highest level it was capable of. You have nothing to support the idea that it would be better with digital other than your your preconceived notions.

     

    In an all digital system one could just as easily guess that it is the flaws of digital that is holding it back.

     

    While I admire your passion for this hobby, I can't help but think that your dogmatic beliefs are holding you back.

     

    dogmatic (adjective) strongly held beliefs as if they were facts

     

    The difference between us, and please correct me if I am wrong about your experience, I have  lived with very high levels of both vinyl and digital for extended periods in my system while you have not.  I will leave it that because the debate is endless, and your mind is obviously made up............ like mine.

     

     

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    3 minutes ago, JoeWhip said:

    Please, not another digital v. Vinyl diversion. 

     

    uhhhh,

     

    you published an article with both digital and vinyl devices so really not a surprise it would go in that direction... , but I agree, I've stated my thoughts so I'm done with it.

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    48 minutes ago, bbosler said:

    held the system back is pure conjecture. You did not hear it with digital, so you are guessing that vinyl held it back. Another equally valid guess is that, despite the flaws, playing vinyl allowed it to perform at the highest level it was capable of. You have nothing to support the idea that it would be better with digital other than your your preconceived notions.


    If you think excessive pops, ticks, and surface noise are a positive, that’s ok. In my book, they hold a system back. In addition, I’ve never heard a piano with vibrato, unless it’s being reproduced from vinyl. 
     

     

    50 minutes ago, bbosler said:

    While I admire your passion for this hobby, I can't help but think that your dogmatic beliefs are holding you back.


    What are these dogmatic beliefs? 
     

    It isn’t a belief that music can’t be made more accurate by writing the digital file to a piece of plastic, then dragging a needle over it. It’s fact. 
     

     

     

    53 minutes ago, bbosler said:

    The difference between us, and please correct me if I am wrong about your experience, I have  lived with very high levels of both vinyl and digital for extended periods in my system while you have not.  I will leave it that because the debate is endless, and your mind is obviously made up............ like mine.

     

    I’ve never lived with a turntable, but I’ve spent a lot of time listening to the best analog systems ever made. 
     

    What do you mean that my mind is made up? I look at the facts, I listen, I render an opinion. This specific system was held back by vinyl. My mind about this specific system was made up after listening. 

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