These threads kind of remind me of a thread LONG AGO when Dylan won the Nobel prize. I initially took the POV that it was ridiculous when some of you convinced me that Dylan was so much more than his music but more of a cultural icon that through his music had huge impact on a huge % of his audience. I agreed when I said "why not Dylan". 

The Dead as well as some of these other groups being mentioned really go beyond their music. Like Clapton, no one does them their true justice if we, in the year 2021, just evaluate them based on some of their music. I can make a strong case that The Dead (and they are NOT one of my top or even close to one of my favorites from that era) had as much if not more of an influence on the same generation as Dylan did. 

1 hour ago, sphinxsix said:

 

None of them IMO had a cult following similar to GD. That was exactly the reason why I chose GD as IMO most overrated one, of course beside my attitude to their music which in its essence I had described above.

 

The Dead have a dedicated very large following. I wouldn't call it a cult. There are just too many of them and many of them are just serious fans, not cultists. IMO, overrated has to also relate to the actual abilities and qualities of the band. The Dead's are not inconsiderable.

18 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

The solution to your problem is pretty simple, my friend, just don't click on this thread 

 

Expensive audio cables are snake oil.  Compare and contrast.  500 words.  Wake me up later.

500 clicks / comments on any audio site.  

17 hours ago, Priaptor said:

Now I will say this about the Dead and for those of you who aren't old enough to understand what it was like when you were at a party or concert with air filled with Dead tunes (among other things), it was much more than just the music. It literally was what we referred to as A SCENE and few bands elicited that to their audiences and listeners the way the Dead did. 

Ok, I can understand that, I happened to witness such phenomena here in Europe where GD has never been as popular as in the US, I guess. Never been a part of such let's say 'fan club' though, BTW never been a member of a proper fan club as well.

3 hours ago, Priaptor said:

I can make a strong case that The Dead (and they are NOT one of my top or even close to one of my favorites from that era) had as much if not more of an influence on the same generation as Dylan did. 

Do you really think so.? Do you also think that the artistic value of their lyrics can be compared in any way with Dylan's.?

3 hours ago, firedog said:

The Dead have a dedicated very large following. I wouldn't call it a cult. There are just too many of them and many of them are just serious fans, not cultists.

I didn't mean 'cult' in religious sense, I meant it in a sense in which 'cult' can be called 'Pulp Fiction' or Martens shoes. IMO they are absolutely cult band - huge, devoted following, some legend or myth surrounding the band etc..

2 hours ago, NOMBEDES said:

Expensive audio cables are snake oil.

 !

The Beatles! 

3 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

Do you really think so.? Do you also think that the artistic value of their lyrics can be compared in any way with Dylan's.?

 

Robert Hunter (lyricist) - Wikipedia

8 minutes ago, Mayfair said:

Robert Hunter (lyricist) - Wikipedia

Wiki: "Upon his death, Rolling Stone described him as "one of rock's most ambitious and dazzling lyricists".

C'mon, everyone is great upon one's death but not everyone gets Nobel Prize while being alive!

But seriously - I've never been into GD.. errr.. their lyrycist's lyrics, hence can't discuss them. 

IMO the only one who could potentially compete with Dylan was Leonard Cohen, YMMV.

What is the rating agency, if I may ask? Are there standards to measure rating when it comes to arts, as opposed to sales? Who defines them? Could you answer these questions?

I hope not. So, take it easy and "love the one you're with," to reference another artist, whatever his rating could be, pal.

15 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

 

Do you also think that the artistic value of their lyrics can be compared in any way with Dylan's.

 

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/KRAUH48GYcE" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Yes, of course and even more. Let's say only that Robert Hunter was the lyricist on Dylan's songs, in fact Robert Hunter has worked with Dylan on a whole series of songs – two from Down in the Groove, one on Tempest and virtually the whole of Together Through Life:

https://bob-dylan.org.uk/archives/144

Silvio

I gotta go

Find out something only dead men know...

27 minutes ago, Priaptor said:

I was fortunate enough to see just about all of them, including Jefferson Airplane, Allman Brothers, Traffic, The Band, The Doors, Dylan (with and without the Band), etc.

Wow, I am envious (and my son would be also) with you having seen the ABB, especially if it was before Duane died.  Wow again.

Bill

Another wow.  Great.  Anxious to tell my son you were at SUNY, we have the discs (basically everything from when he was alive).  Coltrane was his favorite having grown up with me, but Allman supplanted him when he began playing (Les Paul of course).

And agree.  Never the same after.

He found another live recording of Blue Sky from The Warehouse; listened to it every day, several times, for months.  Extended Duane solo, just fantastic.  Sound quality no good (don't care):

Not bad.  I have never heard anything by them that really grabbed me.  I am tempted to say it leans toward noodling, but I think it hangs together.  Hard for me not to think it would seem even more profound with some mushrooms or something.

Not sure it rises to "The Finest Rock Improvisation Ever Recorded," but that's ok.

I also realized that something that has always pushed me away from them is the voice of the vocalist.

Thanks for that,

Bill

4 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

Another wow.  Great.  Anxious to tell my son you were at SUNY, we have the discs (basically everything from when he was alive).  Coltrane was his favorite having grown up with me, but Allman supplanted him when he began playing (Les Paul of course).

 

And agree.  Never the same after.

 

He found another live recording of Blue Sky from The Warehouse; listened to it every day, several times, for months.  Extended Duane solo, just fantastic.  Sound quality no good (don't care):

 

 

Also that night, during the "second show" they did an absolutely stunning jam of Elizabeth Reed. 

They actually loved "The Brook" and considered it one of their main venues. They played there multiple times and loved it. There are some interesting interviews of some of the band members about their love for Stony Brook and that night in particular. 

Had I known it was the last time we were going to seen Duane I would have woken up my passed out friend. 

3 hours ago, christopher3393 said:

 

"With cow dung being the preferred habitat of Psilocybe cubensis, its circumtropical distribution is largely encouraged, if not caused, by the worldwide cattle ranching industry." Therefore, cowboys and girls.

 

Furthermore,   https://peyotecowboy.net/

 

additionally...

 

 

 

In the Morenos Mountains campesinos are planting their fields
While the ghost of Zapata rides a horse that can still outrun the wheel
There, free in the sky high above, nearly clear out of sight
It's the Free Mexican Air Force flyin' tonight

In the City of Angels, a cowboy is cooling his heels
Remembering that God gave us herbs and the fruits of the fields
But a criminal law that makes outlaws of those seeking light
Made the Free Mexican Air Force -- Mescalito riding his white horse --
Yeah, the Free Mexican Air Force is flyin' tonight!
Flying so high - yi - hiyeeeee! ...

How strange that an innocent herb causes money to burn
They'll jail you or kill you for making those rich fat cats squirm
They're the fools who make rules with no difference between wrong or right
That's why the Free Mexican Air Force is flyin' tonight

Uncle Sam in his misery put a nix on the fields of Guerrero
Sayin', "Shoot down all gringos and wetbacks who dare wear sombreros!"
Either run for your life, surrender, or stand up and fight --
Or join the Free Mexican Air Force -- Mescalito riding his white horse --
Yeah, the Free Mexican Air Force is flying tonight!
Flying so high - yi - hiyeeeee! ...

(instrumental bridge)

It is not marijuana destroying the minds of the young
But confusion continued for power and greed in all forms
Well, the borders of evil will fall to the smugglers of light!
We're the Free Mexican Air Force and we're flyin' tonight!

In San Antonio, they tell me that power and money are one
They can buy us or sell you to keep you afraid, on the run
But no one can stop us! My vision is clearly in sight!
And the Free Mexican Air Force -- Mescalito riding his white horse --
Yeah, the Free Mexican Air Force is flyin' tonight!
Flying so high - yi - hiyeeeee! ...

Some were smoking colitas while other were loading their guns
Blowing smoke from their six-shooters, spinning their barrels for fun
Contrabandistas, banditos alike --
We're the Free Mexican Air Force and we're flyin' tonight!

High in the hills we are harvesting sweet sensimillia
Yeah, the law wants it all 'cause they know that the wild weed can free ya
And freedom for us is a prison for the rulers of might!
That's why the Free Mexican Air Force -- Mescalito riding his white horse --
Yeah, the Free Texican Air Force is flyin' tonight!
Flyin' so high- yi- yee...
Flyin' tonight!

 

 

I think you've reminded me I probably don't understand America in 100%  

And quite often - vice versa, IME 

Cool post!

2 hours ago, christopher3393 said:

"The Finest Rock Improvisation Ever Recorded" - Robert Christgau, 37 year editor and chief music critic for Village Voice

 

 

1 hour ago, Bill Brown said:

 I am tempted to say it leans toward noodling

I must admit 'noodling' is the word I've been trying to not use here since the very first post regardless how provocative this thread was meant to be.. BTW I used to like Village Voice a lot when I lived in NY but I don't think we need support of outer authorities when we talk music here. We've all heard quite a lot and know a thing or two about it or even more. We also obviously have different tastes and different bands shaped our music worlds. We even have different life experiences. Hope we all understand that. I definitely wouldn't hate or kill anyone who wouldn't agree with me that the most important performers in the late 60s/early 70s after The Beatles were gone and at the same time the ones who stood the test of time best (again for me) were Hendrix and Led Zeppelin.. Let's not treat the conversations about music that(!) personal 

Word of explanation - like I just said - the thread was in some part meant to be a provocation and in some part - an attempt to understand the phenomenon of Grateful Dead which I think I never quite understood. I know there are quite many Dead fans here and some people from whom I could simply get first handed information - 'what the heck was/is it all about.?' And I think I'm much closer now, after some posts by their fans, to understand what GD was to America, especially after checking out their 1977 concert recommended here by some. Think I can hear this relaxed, family-like, positive atmosphere and the strong connection between the band and the audience some were talking about here.

I said here a couple of weeks ago that I separate music and art in general from its creators - I said while discussing the whole thing with Chris, I think, that if a given musician was a, let's say, a criminal of even worst kind but at the same time he had recorded some fantastic music - I'd still buy the album. Art and who the artist is for me are two separate things. I said - AFAIK Miles Davis was a son of a gun in some regards but it doesn't change my perception of 'Kind of Blue' and dozens of his other great albums.

At the same time - for me the opposite is also true - it's meaningless how great a guy/band making music is, how fantastic on social or any other level his fans are and how great atmosphere both the band and the audience create during live shows - if the music isn't fully convincing for me - just forget it, I'm simply not interested.

Which I'm afraid is the case here. I must add that I have a big problem with country music and any music form influenced by it will probably always be problematical for me. Maybe if I was born in the US things would be different but something tells me that not necessarily.. 

I think I understand a little better what GD meant for young people in America and the fact that the whole cultural and social context is at least as important here as the music itself which for me is still not that interesting, sorry for that.

I didn't mean to offend anybody, thanks to everyone who contributed! 

Ps. Think I will get the above mentioned GD concert and check it out some day eg in a car during some long drive, something tells me it could be quite a good thing in such circumstances  

I vote for not overrated at all.  

Great band, with an incredible number of great songs...  Their music tickles my brain in just the right way.  Growing up, I didn't care for them.  Started liking them in my 30s, for some reason.

12 minutes ago, clipper said:

 

 

 

Never seen something like that (usually being logged in to my Google account was enough):

Choose how to verify your age

7 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

Never seen something like that:

It's because there's a little nudity (innocent, Woodstock style stuff) in the video.

I didn't get the "verify your age" request that you got.  I had a YouTube account that I must have age verified sometime in the past (I guess).

1 minute ago, clipper said:

It's because there's a little nudity (innocent, Woodstock style stuff) in the video.

 

I didn't get the "verify your age" request that you got.  I had a YouTube account that I must have age verified sometime in the past (I guess).

Maybe I'm just too young for GD! 

Yes, interesting video.....I could have been one of the 4 year-olds climbing on the stage supports.  Perhaps the video shows all we need to understand the music and the "scene" (not necessarily just the topless/nude ladies and the naked dude).  If I had gone to the state fair and heard/seen that I would have enjoyed it- the music fits the setting and the scene would allow for some interesting people-watching.  I certainly wouldn't have been blown away (by the music in total, the musicianship is top-notch) or become a dead head.  That's ok.

And @sphinxsix, your post above is good.  I too think we can discuss these things without it becoming argumentative.  I think one of the key components is to use "in my opinion," "I think," etc.  And I used the word "noodling" just because it is so descriptive to me.  I couldn't come up with a different, less pejorative word or phrase to convey it.  I actually would be pleased/hoped to get input that supported or argued against that opinion- @bluesman :)

"At the same time - for me the opposite is also true - it's meaningless how great a guy/band making music is, how fantastic on social or any other level his fans are and how great atmosphere both the band and the audience create during live shows - if the music isn't fully convincing for me - just forget it, I'm simply not interested."   Amen.

An interesting, though perhaps not unexpected comment on Country music.  I don't know where you are from, but suspect there is a folksong tradition that is analogous, that speaks to a population in an archetypal (or something) way.  Modern radio country by and large sucks (I'll say "in my opinion" to follow my rule), but there is good country also.  Something that catches the ear from a genre that came from Irish folk music to Bluegrass to Country. I have lots of "guilty pleasures" there.  If you are ever in Texas, look me up, we can go sit outside on a warm day (ok, hot), eat BBQ (or crawfish if they are in season), drink cold beer, and listen to country music.  If you have your best girl with you we can get you up to speed with the Texas two-step (and if you don't have one there all always lots of lovely Texas ladies that love to dance). :)

Would be a cultural experience, anyway!

Not my favorite song, but it shows the lineage to which I referred.  And if you don't know Jerry Douglas on the dobro check him out!

Bill