Output from server, looking for options for I2S

As a long time user of the Pink Faun  HEA bridge for I2S into my DAC I'm acutely aware that the CM8888 chip by now is ancient history but so far I haven't found anything newer let alone a PCIe based card capable of exporting I2S directly from the CPU. Pink Faun may make one, or not (no indication of it so far) and if the price tag is anything close to their new USB output I'm likely not interested.

Anyone here happening to know a viable option for a great quality I2S output I'd be happy to learn more about it, or if anyone is up for a DIY initiative ....if there is a suitable chip making something work should not be that hard anymore these days, at least that's what I think ;-)

I also did some research and my conclusion is that it is unlikely a successor of CM8888 will be available due to the market demand and high development cost. Even if Pink Faun released a new I2S bridge, I believe it will still be based on the CM8888 but with much better power supply and a much improved crystal. Even with these improvements, this ancient chip can still only support one fixed frequency crystal instead of supporting both 44.1KHz and 48KHz family playbacks. DSD support will also be out of the question. Taiko spent a lot of R&D to develop something more sophisticated in which the music signals can be sent directly to the I2S input lines of the Rohm DAC chip through the PCIe interface in the same system, or through its proprietary XDMI interface to the I2S port in a remote system. We all hear very good feedback from the Olympus early adopters. There is no way we DIYers can achieve these if we continue following their PC server path. 

To me as a DIYer, I believe the following factors are the major ones to achieve good SQ:

1) bit perfect output, lowest possible latency such that each bit arrives the I2S port of the DAC chip at the right time

2) high quality low noise power supply (Taiko achieves this using their battery and management system)

3) high quality dual frequency crystals used as master clocks for both the music server and the DAC chip

4) shortest wires connection between the music server I2S output and the DAC chip I2S input, without going thru the LVDS interface

5) copper enclosures to shield the DAC operations from any possible EMC interference

After digging into all these solutions, I am convinced that I won't be able to find a good I2S solution for my DIY music server. Instead, I am looking at my next build based on Raspberry Pi and Ian Canada HATs, in particular the FiFoPi Q7II Reclocker:

 https://iancanada.ca/products/1d-fifopi-q7-flagship-i2s-dsd-dop-fifo-with-isolator-re-clocker-and-low-phase-noise-xos

It can achieve bit perfect output without taking in the noise of a high power PC. I also plan to use a pair of SC-Pure XO crystals. In theory, the reclocker can also take the I2S output from the Pink Faun I2S bridge. So one suggestion on having a more up-to-date PCIe I2S card is:

Pink Faun I2S Bridge -> I2S input to FiFoPi Q7II Reclocker -> I2S output to DAC chip

The good thing is that the PCIe output to the reclocker needs not be bit perfect and can also go through the LVDS, the bit perfect operation will be performed by a dedicated chip, together with the more advanced audio clocks on the reclocker board. 

In the coming years, I believe there will be more audiophile battery solutions available in the market. As a start, I think I will try the ultracapacitors from Ian. 

On the DAC side, The ES9038 HAT from Ian will be one of the good choices as it should work without any additional work, just add an ESS Controller or a MonitorPiPro.

I have also found a Rohm BD34301EKV based DAC board from Japan which appears to be of high quality:

https://linuxcom.shop-pro.jp/?pid=163769246

Unfortunately they don't accept international orders, even through third-party shippers like Buyee. I am asking my Japanese friend to buy it for me. All these are still at the planning stage. Just my 2 cents to share. 

thanks for your thoughts !

I am using the ultra OCXO for the PF I2S out card, and it has a dedicated high end linear PSU for the 5V input, I'm not a strong believer in master clocks (different discussion though)

As to the ultra caps, listen carefully when implementing them..I find they all have a grayish effect in sound presentation (as most bateries do)

One of the nice aspects of the Metrum DAC's I'm using is the capability to use longer I2S cables without degradation, I hear no difference between 20cm and 100cm, whereas on my DIY tube analog output back in the day the lenght of wire between I2S out and the input for the TDA 1541 gold crown mattered a GREAT deal.

DSD is of no interest and most red book is 44.1 Khz anyhow, yes that is a niche position to be in but that is the format of content that IMHO works best sonically.

My goal is I2S straight from the CPU into the DAC, not wishing to add more steps and/or gear.

If that sounds similar to what Taiko is doing that is right but not to copy them...I have wanted this for many years now...so far PF is the only one offering something suitable.

This is not bad:

https://www.audiobyte.net/products/superhub

But it does not do some things as good as our DIY servers. Perhaps it can be tweaked / modded? 

21 hours ago, Nenon said:

This is not bad:

https://www.audiobyte.net/products/superhub

 

But it does not do some things as good as our DIY servers. Perhaps it can be tweaked / modded? 

that is pretty much what is called 'throwing away the kid with the bathwater' in Dutch ;-)

I'm only interested in the direct from CPU to I2S output, adding as little processing as possible, so far the PF does great things but that CM8888 will become end of life at some point in near future.

On 8/22/2024 at 5:54 PM, SK8 said:

Pink Faun I2S Bridge -> I2S input to FiFoPi Q7II Reclocker -> I2S output to DAC chip

Wouldn't it be interesting if we're stacking multiple reclockers?

https://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/threads/diy-streamer-byggetråd.108040/page-2#post-3957023

Quote

RPI3 -> IsolatorPi II -> FifoPi Q7 -> HDMI Pro II ---> HDMI Cable ---> Receiver DDC -> FifoPi Q7 (with SC-PURE) -> DAC

Time and again I would quote @Nenon's post on WBF

http://www.jlsounds.com/i2soverusb.html

https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/introducing-olympus-olympus-i-o-a-new-perspective-on-modern-music-playback.37939/page-26#post-932997

Quote

A well implemented USB like the Taiko USB card - Taiko USB driver - driven by XDMS-NSM to a JLSounds USB to I2S interface on the DAC, gets you much further than I2S. It's on a completely different level than the most you can squeeze out of the maxed out pinkFaun I2S implementation. And it's already better than my vinyl.

While we'll never get our hands on anything close to the performance of their software (ASIO driver / XDMS-NSM etc. / OS + BIOS tweaks etc.) and then Taiko USB Card might / might not available for the DIY community, at the very least JL Sounds could be further improved with better oscillators

http://www.jlsounds.com/oscil.html

https://iancanada.ca/products/sc-pure-extremely-low-phase-noise-audio-clock

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/sdtrans384-mod-discussion-thread.326168/#post-5518677

Quote

However, Their list price might be 1,800 USD/each or higher.

Since Extreme DC Power Distributor got 6 outputs, that should be more than enough for powering 3 pairs of SC-Pure then

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/product/extreme-dc-power-distributor/

One output for JL Sounds, another one the first reclocker, and then one more for the second reclocker.

Oscillators are (very) sensitive when it comes to the quality of power, it wouldn't hurt to try one of the best out there.

Yet another way to go might be modding stuff like this, though the skills required as shown in the pictures should be unthinkable

https://archive.org/details/manualzilla-id-6718455

http://toukiyakoneko.web.fc2.com/SDTrans384_with_Ultra_Low_Noise_Power_Supply-V1.0.0.pdf

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/55533-audiophile-sd-card-transport/page/2/#comment-924582

SDTrans384 - amazing sound
https://devialetchat.com/Thread-SDTrans384-amazing-sound

On 8/22/2024 at 6:54 PM, SK8 said:

To me as a DIYer, I believe the following factors are the major ones to achieve good SQ:

1) bit perfect output, lowest possible latency such that each bit arrives the I2S port of the DAC chip at the right time

2) high quality low noise power supply (Taiko achieves this using their battery and management system)

3) high quality dual frequency crystals used as master clocks for both the music server and the DAC chip

4) shortest wires connection between the music server I2S output and the DAC chip I2S input, without going thru the LVDS interface

5) copper enclosures to shield the DAC operations from any possible EMC interference

 

What you are describing is my DAP, the Cayin N8ii, which also has DUAL BD34301EKV Dac chips.

interesting stuff, but none of it thus far is going to deliver I2S from a PCIe slot.....can we stay on topic please?

There could be a reason why its so hard to find something that delivers I2S from a PCIe slot...either its not practical or its not efficient.

The path of least resistance usually meets the path to most profits when it comes to hardware.

Good luck.

If only we weren't so l@zy to DAFS

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/573/#comment-967153

https://post76.hk/thread-101652-1-1.html

Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD and ASUS Xonar DSX etc.

http://mimizu.atwebpages.com/articles/articles030.html

https://kkuma.mydns.jp/ppBlog/index.php?mode=category&aim=493253&display=box

Bottom line is, the implementation of such PCIe to I²S "solutions" (ain't no good solutions out there that is) still sucked so bad when compared to the superiority of JL Sounds as proven by @Nenon mentioned above.

15 hours ago, Ozeki said:

There could be a reason why its so hard to find something that delivers I2S from a PCIe slot...either its not practical or its not efficient.

 

The path of least resistance usually meets the path to most profits when it comes to hardware.

 

Good luck.

not having a c;lear demand also means there will not be many products...a year ago even Emile from taiko denounced using I2S as a silly exercise in futility ;-)

Folks like nenon also go through continuous learning, what I held for great sound 10 years ago is not something I'd want to live with today....just look back at the discussion about chokes in the ULPS...

@seeteeyou I have never heard the 'superiority of JL sounds...I2S over USB sounds like a silly idea to me in comparison to a well executed I2S. I have been using I2S since the late 90ies and have never heard a format that outperformed it but who knows...I'll continue this quest ;-)