Lynghdorf TDAI-3400-- external DAC/DAC-streamer ?

I am looking for an upgrade path for my Lyngdorf TDAI-3400. Overall I am very pleased with the resolution and detail it is providing. I am using it to integrate ATC SCM19s and 2 SVS SB2000 subwoofers. I have closely followed all of the instructions for setting up Room Prefect (on board room correction) and fine tuned delay and crossover points for the main and subs. I use the system for streaming Tidal and I am feeding the 3400 as follows:

Spectrum router> TP link Fiber Converter> Etherregen> Lyngdorf 3400

I am using a Mutec Nano to Clock the Etherregen. I feel like there is a bit lacking for soundstage depth. My primary concerns that  there is just something organic missing. This was one of my main concerns going with the Lyngdorf. My last integrated was a Luxman 590 Class A integrated. I am not getting the emotional connection that I have had with some other equipment in the past. Technically the sound is amazing but there just seems to be a  bit of magic missing. There is no lack of clarity, resolution or detail.

A few of the Lyngdorf owners have added an external DAC and report good success. The are a lot on nay sayers that do not think adding at external DAC and going analog into a digital integrated amp makes sense but there are a few reports otherwise. I don’t know if it is possible, but maybe certain type of DAC may bring some magic synergy.

There are 2 paths I am considering and would be open to any suggestions:

1. Keep the current system in place and add a Linear power supply for the Ethergen and Mutec Nano. I am trying to wait for Alex to release the upcoming JS4 from Uptone as it has 2 isolated outputs with adjustable voltage which will not break the moat on the Etherregen
2. Add an external DAC or DAC/steamer.

For option 2 I am looking at the Gustard R26.  It has a world clock input so I can utilize the Mutec Nano. The only downside is that it is a Roon endpoint and I know nothing about Roon. Hifi Rose has a really nice DAC/Streamer with a world clock input but it is over 5K. Would like to keep the budget around 2 or 3K.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Kind regards,

J

From the EAR review I read, the TDAI-3400 seems like a great piece. Have you tried warming up the sound with its DSP? I suspect the manufacturer's auto-EQ curve doesn't match your preferences. Try adding a filter that increases bass by one dB/octave from 100 Hz and down. Tweak from there. Ramping up deep bass warms up the sound, increases envelopment and expands the soundstage. That's where I'd start, before spending any more money.

A PSU upgrade on the ER and the TP-Link FMC is a worthwhile idea. You might also consider replacing the FMC with the amazing opticalModule Deluxe.

Don’t get side tracked on word clock, thats not where the problem lies. DAC sections have a big effect on subjective experience. LPS’s can improve low level noise floor issues and transients but haven’t fixed mid range issues IME. I think buying the R26 to feed via coax/ AES input or via USB input with an Intona USB isolator would be a wise first step. The “comes with” streamer endpoint section of the R26 is ok but not a SQ match for using it’s physical digital connection options. 

@audiobomber

"Try adding a filter that increases bass by one dB/octave from 100 Hz and down. Tweak from there. Ramping up deep bass warms up the sound, increases envelopment and expands the soundstage. "

I spent very little time messing around with the EQ settings on the Lyngdorf prior to your suggestion.  The unit does have 2 built in EQ settings that boost bass: "Bass1" and "Bass2".  In the main menu you, have the ability to adjust the bass 20-800Hz in 1/2 or 0.5 Db increments. 

I know that the low frequencies can expand the soundstage and open it up, but I actually found that 0.5-1.5 Db in the 300hz range worked pretty well, especially when using the built in "Bass 1" curve . This actually helped a lot a low to moderate volume levels.

I now have opened up the "custom voicing" guide/manual.  Thanks for your suggestion.

Cheers,

J

@davide256

"Don’t get side tracked on word clock, thats not where the problem lies. DAC sections have a big effect on subjective experience. LPS’s can improve low level noise floor issues and transients but haven’t fixed mid range issues IME. I think buying the R26 to feed via coax/ AES input or via USB input with an Intona USB isolator would be a wise first step. The “comes with” streamer endpoint section of the R26 is ok but not a SQ match for using its physical digital connection options."

Thanks Dave. The idea of an external DAC with the Lyngdorf came-to-be because of a few brave guys that took a beating from the Lyngdorf community for adding one.  No one thought that the Lyndorf would benefit from an external DAC, but some with higher end DACs, primarily Chords, reported otherwise. My unit has an additional built in module that allows for "advanced" analog input, balance and single ended. I was planning to use the internal steaming streaming option within the R26.  I also  have an external streamer that I can use as well (note sure if it is necessary with room or Jplay). I will be using a a Mutec clock input at 50ohm into the Gustard, and 75 ohm into the Etheregen. The Etherregen should help to isolate the internet feed into the Gustard.  

So back to the R26. The Lyngdorf uses a system that that minimizes the signal path through the integrated. As the average audiophile, I am always looking to improve and experiment. You win some, you lose some. 

On 4/29/2024 at 4:46 AM, JayDog said:

I am looking for an upgrade path for my Lyngdorf TDAI-3400. Overall I am very pleased with the resolution and detail it is providing. I am using it to integrate ATC SCM19s and 2 SVS SB2000 subwoofers. I have closely followed all of the instructions for setting up Room Prefect (on board room correction) and fine tuned delay and crossover points for the main and subs. I use the system for streaming Tidal and I am feeding the 3400 as follows:

 

Spectrum router> TP link Fiber Converter> Etherregen> Lyngdorf 3400

 

I am using a Mutec Nano to Clock the Etherregen. I feel like there is a bit lacking for soundstage depth. My primary concerns that  there is just something organic missing. This was one of my main concerns going with the Lyngdorf. My last integrated was a Luxman 590 Class A integrated. I am not getting the emotional connection that I have had with some other equipment in the past. Technically the sound is amazing but there just seems to be a  bit of magic missing. There is no lack of clarity, resolution or detail.

 

A few of the Lyngdorf owners have added an external DAC and report good success. The are a lot on nay sayers that do not think adding at external DAC and going analog into a digital integrated amp makes sense but there are a few reports otherwise. I don’t know if it is possible, but maybe certain type of DAC may bring some magic synergy.

 

There are 2 paths I am considering and would be open to any suggestions:

 

1. Keep the current system in place and add a Linear power supply for the Ethergen and Mutec Nano. I am trying to wait for Alex to release the upcoming JS4 from Uptone as it has 2 isolated outputs with adjustable voltage which will not break the moat on the Etherregen
2. Add an external DAC or DAC/steamer.

 

For option 2 I am looking at the Gustard R26.  It has a world clock input so I can utilize the Mutec Nano. The only downside is that it is a Roon endpoint and I know nothing about Roon. Hifi Rose has a really nice DAC/Streamer with a world clock input but it is over 5K. Would like to keep the budget around 2 or 3K.

 

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Kind regards,

 

J

See my signature. Adding the Chord DAVE as an external DAC and the dCS Network Bridge as a streamer made a huge, huge difference. A completely different playing field. You will need the optional ADC module in the Lyngdorf.

23 hours ago, skatbelt said:

 

See my signature. Adding the Chord DAVE as an external DAC and the dCS Network Bridge as a streamer made a huge, huge difference. A completely different playing field. You will need the optional ADC module in the Lyngdorf.

That's awesome. That is just the information I was looking for before making a leap.  I have the ADC module. Do you think a less expensive external DAC/streamer would make a difference or do I need to step up to the Chord Dave level of performance to best the Lyngdorf? 

Deleted

On 5/10/2024 at 2:30 PM, JayDog said:

That's awesome. That is just the information I was looking for before making a leap.  I have the ADC module. Do you think a less expensive external DAC/streamer would make a difference or do I need to step up to the Chord Dave level of performance to best the Lyngdorf? 

Even a first generation Chord HUGO improved things, as did DACs I borrowed in the past: Metrum Pavane and Aqua La Scala MKII. I also own a Weiss DAC205 for a second system and this DAC also has very good synergy with the Lyngdorf/dCS combo.

I have no experience with cheaper streamers. The dCS is really very good when used with its own player software (Mosaic). Plays at a higher level in my system than a Grimm Audio MU1 if the MU1's upsampler is disabled. With the upsampler active, the Grimm is in a class of its own.

I have one week with the Gustardr 26 at this time. I was not expecting too much, as it is an all-in-one-box. I ran into the ADC unit with Mogami cables. I used Alexs' recommendation for a 50ohm clock cable which is stiff as hell. There is a substantial increase in performance. After 2 weeks, I will run the Gustard with the internal clock to see if there is a difference. My best guess is that the Mutec is making a contribution as this DAC is punching way above its price point. 

I would love to get some dCS gear, but I am funding a second home at this time. I did notice that their separate  streamer has its own  clock input. Pretty sweet stuff.

I'm rather confused as to why there is talk about putting the external DAC BEFORE the Lyngdorf, instead of AFTER the Lyngdorf? 

The Lyngdorf 2170 & 3400 has a digital coax output.

On the 2170 at least, the chain you could or should be running is:

Streamer -> digital input of Lyngdorf -> digital output of Lyngdorf (RoomPerfect™ applied) -> digital input of DAC -> analogue output of DAC -> analogue input of Power Amp -> speakers

In this chain you have full signal from the DAC to power amp, and you digitally control the volume on the Lyngdorf as normal. 

Yes there are usually concerns about bit depth degradation from digitally controlling the volume, but I'm pretty sure their Equibit technology goes a long way to diminish the issue.

The important thing is that the analogue gain is at full (2v or 4v) strength from the DAC itself. You just put the volume control in the digital domain before the DAC in this case, which always happens anyway with the Lyngdorf.

Someone should try this solution and see what happens.