New dCS Varese Components Launching August 7, 2024

10 hours ago, octaviars said:

 

 

 

and there was me thinking that I’d reached the ultimate in “separates” when I bought a DAC to connect to my CD Player some years ago….

On 8/7/2024 at 12:08 AM, firedog said:

okay, how many multiples of 6 figures does this cost?

"The Varèse music system comprises five components, including the Core streaming and processing unit (£75,000), two mono DACs (one for each audio channel, £90,000 for the pair), a separate user interface unit (£20,000) and the optional master clock (£32,500), for a total eyewatering price of £217,500. A dedicated CD/SACD transport will be added to the line up in 2025."

From <https://www.whathifi.com/news/dcs-announces-its-most-advanced-music-system-yet-and-its-as-expensive-as-it-sounds>

17 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I like that dCS totally went for it. I can’t wait to learn more about the reasoning for what it’s doing and to learn about what it’s actually doing in the new differential ring DAC. 
 

We’ve been using AES, S/PDIF etc… forever. Perhaps there’s a better way or a better way to transport it. 
 

With respect to a separate box for physical media. Thank god! That’s likely the most expensive part. Those without CDs and SACDs likely don’t want that added cost if they won’t use it. 

$217K, without the disc player. I will admit I'm surprised. I thought it would be at least $300K.

17 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I like that dCS totally went for it. I can’t wait to learn more about the reasoning for what it’s doing and to learn about what it’s actually doing in the new differential ring DAC. 
 

We’ve been using AES, S/PDIF etc… forever. Perhaps there’s a better way or a better way to transport it. 
 

With respect to a separate box for physical media. Thank god! That’s likely the most expensive part. Those without CDs and SACDs likely don’t want that added cost if they won’t use it. 

$217K, without the disc player. I will admit I'm surprised. I thought it would be at least $300K.

17 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I like that dCS totally went for it. I can’t wait to learn more about the reasoning for what it’s doing and to learn about what it’s actually doing in the new differential ring DAC. 
 

We’ve been using AES, S/PDIF etc… forever. Perhaps there’s a better way or a better way to transport it. 
 

With respect to a separate box for physical media. Thank god! That’s likely the most expensive part. Those without CDs and SACDs likely don’t want that added cost if they won’t use it. 

$217K, without the disc player. I will admit I'm surprised. I thought it would be at least $300K.

17 hours ago, Iving said:

What will the audio "press" (independent and not so independent) say about Varèse?

I will bet you one of my DACs that the traditional press will all love it. It's dCS and it's super expensive.

They will probably all say it's the best thing they've ever heard. 

When have they said a dCS component wasn't great?

Note: and I'm not saying they aren't great. I'm sure this thing will sound wonderful.

Just that the traditional audio press isn't the place to find out if you or anyone else can hear a difference between it a $5000 streamer/pre/dac  all in one with a set of $3000 Purifi mono block power amps. Or even another high end setup that "only" costs $30K or $50K. 

On 8/7/2024 at 3:30 AM, Priaptor said:

I just find it interesting that WADAX, who in my opinion hit the market just right for a 500K+ DAC with their cables and now with what may be a softening economy are releasing a trickle down "reasonably priced" DAC whereas MSB and DCS are catching up to WADAX with their version of the super expensive DAC.

 

Interesting times in the DAC world. 

People who buy 100£ DACs, or even 20k, aren’t affected by a softening economy.

2 hours ago, firedog said:

$217K, without the disc player. I will admit I'm surprised. I thought it would be at least $300K.

If going by the What HiFi article I linked, that appears to be 217 GBP, so around $275K USD ?

2 hours ago, firedog said:

Just that the traditional audio press isn't the place to find out if you or anyone else can hear a difference between it a $5000 streamer/pre/dac  all in one with a set of $3000 Purifi mono block power amps. Or even another high end setup that "only" costs $30K or $50K. 

I think it is as it has always been, what is it worth to squeeze that last bit of diminishing returns, and it follows that it must be there to be had in the first place. Its a very personal choice on both counts.

20 hours ago, Iving said:

1. What will the audio "press" (independent and not so independent) say about Varèse?

3 hours ago, firedog said:

I will bet you one of my DACs that the traditional press will all love it. It's dCS and it's super expensive.

Probably I don't get out enough, but I was a bit surprised to see Varèse touted in "What Hi-Fi" - which I associate with "aspiration" to visit Richer Sounds with x00 rather than drop x00,000 on a digital signal co-ordination tower. We know high ticket items are bought for reasons other than function (form rather than function, prestige etc). So SQ is not the only driver of demand.

20 hours ago, Iving said:

My post point is that the actual demand for Varèse (I imagine/for argument's sake) will come from people who likely already have a dCS stack at home.

I wrote this ▲ before I read this ▼ in What Hi-Fi (my bolds):

While exploring how to improve the sonic and measured performance of its DACs, its engineers also considered whether they could develop a unified system to transport audio, timing and control signals, while improving clocking arrangements between audio components.

However, it also wanted to make it even easier for listeners to discover music and manage playback, and carried out a range of interviews with dCS owners worldwide to understand what the future of music interfaces might look like.

Bringing these two strands of research together, dCS decided to create a complete playback system that it says “reimagines how we interact and listen to music” and “reinterprets the dCS experience for a new era”.

... which I take as corroboration of my guess that Varèse will be attractive to those who already own a dCS stack.

20 hours ago, Iving said:

2. What will Varèse buyers do with their old stacks?

3. What will Varèse buyers say about how/how much Varèse improves on their existing dCS gear?

4. Have Varèse buyers - in their own minds - achieved value for money trading up?

2. They won't get a trade-in discount - I presume. They'll take a hit. Or give the outdated rig away to the grandkids. Or maybe just leave it in the cupboard under the stairs to gather dust.

3. It will be said that SQ delta is there - and who knows what proportion Subjective only in each case - but Varèse customers might not even care that much to contemplate the question. In Brave New World high end is not necessarily about SQ? Your Golden Ears are trash.

4. Grey area? Probably we shall never know.

1 hour ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

I think it is as it has always been, what is it worth to squeeze that last bit of diminishing returns, and it follows that it must be there to be had in the first place. Its a very personal choice on both counts.

I would not consider your view to be inaccurate, but perhaps not comprehensive enough for me.
What you describe has unfortunately been shaping the industry for half a century - and through the significant development of the past 15 years, the presumed grandeur called state of the art has - in my opinion - begun to alienate the vast majority of hobbyists through exclusion. 
In addition, the distorted image of an audiophile system for 200k+ also seems to make the conversion of the hobby with other potentially interested target groups more difficult.

12 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

the presumed grandeur called state of the art has - in my opinion - begun to alienate the vast majority of hobbyists through exclusion. 

Some hobbyists are interested in state of the art. "Presumptions of grandeur", feelings of "alienation" and "exclusion" might convey something about the beholder but I think there are far more important things to warrant such feelings than HiFi.

Perhaps if one cannot share in the joy themselves, or share the joy of others, best to focus on what they do enjoy.

1 hour ago, Iving said:

and carried out a range of interviews with dCS owners worldwide to understand what the future of music interfaces might look like.

Bringing these two strands of research together, dCS decided to create a complete playback system that it says “reimagines how we interact and listen to music” and “reinterprets the dCS experience for a new era”.

 

... which I take as corroboration of my guess that Varèse will be attractive to those who already own a dCS stack.

I think they obviously want to market to those most likely to buy (more of) their products but I (not a dCS stack owner) would be keen to hear this 'bold new imagining bringing us into a new era'.If for no other reason than curiosity, marketing hyperbole aside.

18 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

 

Some hobbyists are interested in state of the art. "Presumptions of grandeur", feelings of "alienation" and "exclusion" might convey something about the beholder but I think there are far more important things to warrant such feelings than HiFi.

Perhaps if one cannot share in the joy themselves, or share the joy of others, best to focus on what they do enjoy.

 

I agree absolutely with you that some responses could express more about personal intentions than others ;-)

8 minutes ago, DuckToller said:

I agree absolutely with you that some responses could express more about personal intentions than others ;-)

Sure but I think our responses were fairly clear. Not sure what personal intentions you are referring to

20 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

I think they obviously want to market to those most likely to buy (more of) their products but I (not a dCS stack owner) would be keen to hear this 'bold new imagining bringing us into a new era'.If for no other reason than curiosity, marketing hyperbole aside.

If you put "marketing hyperbole aside", there isn't anything left but a semantic vacuum ... "reimagines/reinterprets the dCS experience for a new era" is patent (sic) marketing speak for "please buy our new line, especially if you are already emotionally invested in our brand".

Even on WBF, the gist of the thread is that prices have become nonsensical, and that dCS has "lost its North". Well that's very funny because of course it hasn't! - and Varèse buyers won't care what anybody thinks.

But I do see a reconfiguration of our hobby as a whole community. As I suggested in my last post. When people spend significant amounts of money, some will justify entirely in terms of SQ (old skool) whereas many won't. Sure - there has always been prestige high end. But there is a burgeoning of ghettos - I do wonder.

38 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

I think there are far more important things to warrant such feelings than HiFi.

Trends in the audio game are not unrelated to what's going on out in the "real" world. Culturally things tend to go hand in hand rather than venture their own way. One thing follows in the wake of another. Culture roils around and infects (or blesses) everything.

6 minutes ago, Iving said:

 

If you put "marketing hyperbole aside", there isn't anything left but a semantic vacuum ... "reimagines/reinterprets the dCS experience for a new era" is patent (sic) marketing speak for "please buy our new line, especially if you are already emotionally invested in our brand".

 

Even on WBF, the gist of the thread is that prices have become nonsensical, and that dCS has "lost its North". Well that's very funny because of course it hasn't! - and Varèse buyers won't care what anybody thinks.

 

But I do see a reconfiguration of our hobby as a whole community. As I have suggested. When people spend significant amounts of money, some will justify entirely in terms of SQ (old skool) whereas many won't. Sure - there has always been prestige high end. But there is a burgeoning of ghettos - I do wonder.

 

 

Trends in the audio game are not unrelated to what's going on out in the "real" world. Culturally things tend to go hand in hand rather than venture their own way. One thing follows in the wake of another. Culture roils around and infects (or blesses) everything.

Totally agree its dCS marketing without substance, but don't particularly see that different to many other products, particularly expensive ones. Nothing new there either

I recently bought a Toyota Landcruiser 300 series (I am not sure if they released them in USA). On forums there was no end of vitriol about the insane prices and evil car industry. I love the car. I couldn't afford a G wagon or some other brands but love what I have

39 minutes ago, Iving said:

If you put "marketing hyperbole aside", there isn't anything left but a semantic vacuum

The product was announced like 4 minutes ago. You may have to put on some patience 🙂

41 minutes ago, Iving said:

Even on WBF, the gist of the thread is that prices have become nonsensical, and that dCS has "lost its North". Well that's very funny because of course it hasn't! -

As long as I’ve been in this hobby, admittedly not as long as many others, people have said this exact same thing. Perhaps it’s human nature. My mother in law says the same thing about grocery prices. 

41 minutes ago, Iving said:

and Varèse buyers won't care what anybody thinks.

I hope buyers of any product don’t care what others think. They are buying the products for themselves!

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

The product was announced like 4 minutes ago. You may have to put on some patience 🙂

Well - apparently - probably - it's Asia who'll be first to (substantially???) "reimagine" and "reinterpret dCS experience for a new era". Yes - I can't wait! But I think we will all be frustrated. Because I don't think we'll hear too many first hand accounts of Varèse - even in the fullness of time. Partly because market segment is small. But partly because new owners won't be the type to blurt things out in internet forums. That is part of what I'm getting at. Horses for courses ... Some horses won't even be led to water - they have their own oases.

2 minutes ago, Iving said:

 

Well - apparently - probably - it's Asia who'll be first to (substantially???) "reimagine" and "reinterpret dCS experience for a new era". Yes - I can't wait! But I think we will all be frustrated. Because I don't think we'll hear too many first hand accounts of Varèse - even in the fullness of time. Partly because market segment is small. But partly because new owners won't be the type to blurt things out in internet forums. That is part of what I'm getting at. Horses for courses ... Some horses won't even be led to water - they have their own oases.

I already have something lined up. You’ll be able to read my full firsthand account later this fall. 

6 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I already have something lined up. You’ll be able to read my full firsthand account later this fall. 

I wondered about that! You interviewed DS on AS, right? With John Quick and John Golias to boot ...

I'm even more impatient to see your first hand account of Varèse. Will read with relish.

2 minutes ago, Iving said:

You interviewed DS on AS, right?

Yes. 
 

I have to try it hard not to comment on the absurdity of these prices. There is a question of morality that is best left unsaid.

Last week I learned that the berth for a large yacht in Ibiza can cost €5k/day...