New dCS Varese Components Launching August 7, 2024

The most interesting Varese post I have read this morning:

Proposition: If dCS got the Varese pricing wrong, they'll be struggling financially sooner rather than later.

2 hours ago, Iving said:

conspiracy between dCS and its customers may implicate customers as deluded: they are getting something other than SQ - but don't even know it.

I'm not sure one can be deluded as in being delusional by getting something they didn't know they were getting - someone got a surprise birthday party but I wouldn't say they were deluded

57 minutes ago, Iving said:

1 hour ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

You may be mixing with very different folks

 

No doubt about it

have you been hanging out with Amir over at that other place ? I gather they have devices used to uncover wicked audiophool ways😁

Just now, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

have you been hanging out with Amir over at that other place ? I gather they have devices used to uncover wicked audiophool ways😁

lol not very much at all. I think you have me down for someone I'm not. I go by the same name there.

10 minutes ago, Iving said:

11 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

have you been hanging out with Amir over at that other place ? I gather they have devices used to uncover wicked audiophool ways😁

 

lol not very much at all.

Hmm..Exactly what a spy would say !! We are on to you ! 😁

2 hours ago, Iving said:

makes me feel like [James Bond/] George Martin."

Interesting

Sure has taken a long time to move on from the Vivaldi (besides firmware, and Apex editions). A vast amount has happened in the dac marketplace in that time and there are a ton of other high end options (Lampizator, Totaldac, APL, MBL, Wadax and many more) and plenty of excellence at lower price points.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a major step up for DCS, but for a very limited market.

It might result in some Vivaldi components hitting the market.

Hong Kong AV show

In person presentations in English from dCS personnel after local language intros ...

2 hours ago, Iving said:

The most interesting Varese post I have read this morning:

 

 

Proposition: If dCS got the Varese pricing wrong, they'll be struggling financially sooner rather than later.

I almost threw up in my mouth reading that guy’s wild conjecture presented as if it’s true. 

1 hour ago, kaka said:

Interesting

 

Sure has taken a long time to move on from the Vivaldi (besides firmware, and Apex editions). A vast amount has happened in the dac marketplace in that time and there are a ton of other high end options (Lampizator, Totaldac, APL, MBL, Wadax and many more) and plenty of excellence at lower price points.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a major step up for DCS, but for a very limited market.

 

It might result in some Vivaldi components hitting the market.

dCS hasn’t moved on from Vivaldi. Varèse is a step up and Vivaldi will remain in the product line. 
 

The time it takes between dCS product introductions is terrific for customers. Digital products that remain current, or can be brought up to date easily, for beyond ten years are very rare and much appreciated. 

17 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

A one-off car is $13,000,000. Sounds like that guy got a deal on the DAC 🙂

 

https://www.rolls-roycemotorcars.com/en_US/bespoke/coachbuild/coachbuild-sweptail.html

Why bother with this cheap model when you can have this?

https://nypost.com/2024/02/29/lifestyle/bespoke-rolls-royce-is-worlds-most-expensive-car-at-31m-heaven-on-earth/

2 minutes ago, Allan F said:

 

Why bother with this cheap model when you can have this?

 

https://nypost.com/2024/02/29/lifestyle/bespoke-rolls-royce-is-worlds-most-expensive-car-at-31m-heaven-on-earth/

OMG, I absolutely love it!

Thanks for the link @Allan F.

I can't afford that car, but I would never make the jump that some audiophiles love to make, and say expensive cars like this turn people off the car hobby. I think it's the opposite. I'm not a car guy, but I love these bespoke models. I'd purchase one today if I could afford it. Pushing boundaries is wonderful. 

8 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I would never make the jump that some audiophiles love to make, and say expensive cars like this turn people off the car hobby

Agree 100%. I believe there are lots of reasons why this has happened in the audio world, some reasonable (rational, sane, scientific - choose your adjective) and some not so IMO. Those reasons have been argued to death in the past in many forums, unfortunately fracturing the larger audiophile community such that you now pick your forum according to ideology. It may happen a bit in other hobbies like cars but I can't imagine it in say gardening forums. The thing that keeps me coming back to this forum is the balance of views and overall well meaning tenor of communication, especially since CA became AS.

10 hours ago, Allan F said:

 

Why bother with this cheap model when you can have this?

 

https://nypost.com/2024/02/29/lifestyle/bespoke-rolls-royce-is-worlds-most-expensive-car-at-31m-heaven-on-earth/

Again, you have made my little Porsche hobby look affordable! Thank you. My wife will send her complaints your way...

1 minute ago, AudioDoctor said:

Again, you have made my little Porsche hobby look affordable! Thank you. My wife will send her complaints your way...

You are welcome, but "No Thanks" re your wife complaining to me. 🙂

Varese spec pdf attached (as shared by vintage_tube on WBF who NB'd DSD/512)

dcs-varese-system-specifications-a4_0808.pdf

1 hour ago, Iving said:

Varese spec pdf attached (as shared by vintage_tube on WBF who NB'd DSD/512)

dcs-varese-system-specifications-a4_0808.pdf 45.13 kB · 8 downloads

What is NB’d?

The specs are on the dCS site - https://dcsaudio.com/assets/dcs-varese-system-specifications-a4_0808.pdf

31 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

What is NB’d?

 

The specs are on the dCS site - https://dcsaudio.com/assets/dcs-varese-system-specifications-a4_0808.pdf

There's loads of interesting stuff at the dCS web site - including a discussion "New dCS 6 box presentation!" - presumably amongst folks largely invested in dCS. Given certainty that Varese targeted at existing dCS owners (we know this from declared dCS market research), that conversation is relevant for anyone interested in what's happening in this market sector. Includes speculation about whether Varese will support DSD256 ... hence NB (Nota Bene) on WBF about DSD512. Varese info gleaned on www may be of interest to people here not otherwise aware - as any internet sharing of info. No worries if not.

Other snippets:

1. First actual listening impressions:
a) Mohammed Samji
b) Paul Soor

2. In the UK, HiFi Lounge will have Varese on permanent demo date TBC

16 minutes ago, Iving said:

Given certainty that Varese targeted at existing dCS owners (we know this from declared dCS market research), that conversation is relevant for anyone interested in what's happening in this market sector.

Huh?

17 minutes ago, Iving said:

Includes speculation about whether Varese will support DSD256 ... hence NB (Nota Bene) on WBF about DSD512

Huh?

3 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Huh?

😳

On 8/9/2024 at 6:05 AM, The Computer Audiophile said:

dCS hasn’t moved on from Vivaldi. Varèse is a step up and Vivaldi will remain in the product line. 
 

The time it takes between dCS product introductions is terrific for customers. Digital products that remain current, or can be brought up to date easily, for beyond ten years are very rare and much appreciated. 

I think one thing that is important to remember regarding these uber expensive DACs (as well as some other components) is who is really supporting the cost of the R&D?

Now I know lots of people will start with the Asia, etc. but when you have DACs at price points of 300+k to 600+ and above there really is a limited end-user market.  Just look at WBF, a forum with some of the most expensive equipment, just not many with a 600K WADAX. 

HOWEVER, the speaker makers, the electronics (amp/preamp) manufacturers, reviewers, and of course the dealer really buffer companies like WADAX and now MSB and dCS from the otherwise massive exposure they would otherwise have.  When you go to a show it is impressive how many are showing with a 600K WADAX they own.  Now they are getting it at a fraction of what I would have to pay for it but even a fraction covers the manufactures overhead and buffers the losses they would otherwise be exposed to IF they were strictly dependent on the end-user consumer. 

On 8/9/2024 at 10:52 AM, Iving said:

 

Proposition: If dCS got the Varese pricing wrong, they'll be struggling financially sooner rather than later.

looking at the published financial data, it looks like dCS are doing OK at the moment. There is not much in the way of detail, it would be interesting to have a summary of sales / turnover, but the numbers suggest steady and gradual progress, nothing too alarming or concerning.

https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/02072115-data-conversion-systems-limited

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02072115/filing-history

2 hours ago, Priaptor said:

but when you have DACs at price points of 300+k to 600+ and above there really is a limited end-user market. 

I would think that all audio gear at this price point has a very "limited end-user market". 🙂

43 minutes ago, Confused said:

looking at the published financial data, it looks like dCS are doing OK at the moment. There is not much in the way of detail, it would be interesting to have a summary of sales / turnover, but the numbers suggest steady and gradual progress, nothing too alarming or concerning.

 

https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/02072115-data-conversion-systems-limited

 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02072115/filing-history

Yes - 2023 P&L statement exemption due to being a small company = inter alia turnover < c. £10m.

dCS a British company significantly smaller than Linn (£22m?) or Naim (£39m?).

If turnover is <£10m with iirc 43 or so employees - taking premises, staff and other costs into account, and relying on selling small # product units at retail region of £250,000/whatever to cover several years past R&D - well - "Best of British" (Good Luck).

As already intimated, I wonder about price sensitivity of Varese. Must be a difficult call.

1 hour ago, Allan F said:

 

I would think that all audio gear at this price point has a very "limited end-user market". 🙂

Agree 

my only point was the risk to the manufacturer of developing and selling these products to an extremely small market place is highly limited by their main clients, namely dealers, reviewers and other manufacturers 

9 hours ago, Priaptor said:

11 hours ago, Allan F said:

 

I would think that all audio gear at this price point has a very "limited end-user market". 🙂

Agree 

 

my only point was the risk to the manufacturer of developing and selling these products to an extremely small market place is highly limited by their main clients, namely dealers, reviewers and other manufacturers 

I suspect, with only anecdotal evidence, that there will be a market for the Varese, albeit a select one. I really don't think that is limited to dealers etc but I know (anecdotally from more than one dealer) that various high end products do have a huge mark up which the dealers and distributors do not pay. Customers also don't always pay full retail ;-). In some ways the huge mark ups presumably compensate for the fewer sales.

There may be another marketing aspect of these ultra expensive products and that is to have the 'name' and prestige associated with their "flagship" as claimed to be the best on the market, the leader in the field. Price no object (ironically, the higher the 'better' in some ways). While trickle down economics has been criticized, I guess you could call this trickle down marketing. It helps sells their lesser priced products for which there may be a bigger potential market.

Even if they sold enough to cover their R&D it may be 'worth it' in terms of trickle down benefits to their lesser priced gear, using things they learned in that research.

I think "flagship" products likely get justified in more ways than just their individual sales figures.