R-2R Audio Note DAC 4.1 DIY and mods

  I no longer have Paper in oil caps in the system. But 20 years ago I did. A lot; tube phono, preamp, and amplifiers. 

  Preferred the AN Tin PIO over the copper for some reason. Sounded better. A little cheaper too. 

Hey guys, my DAC 4.1 is been built right now.  When I get it I want to change out the SPDIF RCA input to a BNC. 

What do you think of this one?

https://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/568-NBB75SI

i assume I need an insulated one, right?

Also, any recommendation on a cheap soldering iron/kit for a newbie, and only for the occasional jobs like swapping out input connectors or the odd cap change? 

1 hour ago, Orangecrush said:

 

Also, any recommendation on a cheap soldering iron/kit for a newbie, and only for the occasional jobs like swapping out input connectors or the odd cap change? 

 

 

Hakko FX-888d

Thanks!

I would fit a BNC in the extra socket on the back so you have the option to use either, and fit the switch to select them. Or bypass the switch and simply connect one or the other. Loosing RCA is not so good, especially if you decide to sell it.

That’s is a great idea. Thanks for the help!

Make your own cables. That way is  best if you need a RCA on one end it can be BNC on the other. 

  Purchased a Canare crimping tool and a couple of die sets to allow making different cables. The Canare cables and all the Canare crimp on connectors are first rate. 

  I recommend the Canare panel mount BNC connector also. True impedance matching. Think there are 50 ohm and 75 ohm versions.

I have the cables covered. I love my Triode Wire Labs SPDIF cable with Canare BNCs.  I do have a nice BNC/RCA adaptor by Black Cat, which is also awesome that I could use,  but I am not sure I trust the Audio Note Digital RCA input.  Can’t find any information on it. It seems that it is the same product as their regular RCA jacks. Can anyone confirm that? 

This is the adapter I have that maintains the 75 ohm of the cable:

https://www.thecableco.com/xox-bnc-to-rca-adapter.html

But I still would rather elimate using the RCA jack just for peace of mind. A Canare jack was what I first looked for, but it is surprisingly hard to find a simple, straight, insulated Canare BNC bulk-head jack. Unless you buy a hundred! 

Maybe I am just over worrying and should use the adapter with the AN RCA and call it a day.  

If reflections are a problem, how would they manifest themselves?

Audio Note UK were kind enough to answer and said the AN Silver RCA SPDIF is the same as their standard RCAs. So I definitely will add a BNC input and then I don’t have to worry about it.  

On 3/15/2018 at 2:51 PM, Orangecrush said:

 

 

But I still would rather elimate using the RCA jack just for peace of mind. A Canare jack was what I first looked for, but it is surprisingly hard to find a simple, straight, insulated Canare BNC bulk-head jack. Unless you buy a hundred! 

 

  Check at Have Inc. they stock all kinds of panel mount Canare BNC jacks and offer singles. 

you can use their bnc to rca

http://ar-t.co/LEGATO.html

Thanks Panelhead, that is a great site.

Amir, thanks, I am very familiar with Legato, he (Pat) also believes in avoiding RCAs for Digital if possible. 

If you end up with the same connections in the DAC, I don't see the difference. Audio Note use RCA in to the Fifth Element from the Fifth Force....

Astrostar, that’s true if your going RCA to RCA, but my source has a well designed BNC output and going to a 50 ohm RCA input is not as good due to reflections. How noticeable? I don’t know, but for $10 why not remove that variable and maintain a  true 75 ohm connection. 

  If you go BNC to BNC you can use one of the Canare 12G-SDI cables. These have a 3.0 GHz bandwidth.

  Thought about making one, for some reason the crimping die is 350.00. Looks just like a 80.00 5CFB die set. 

  The premade cables are available cheap. I may order the 3’ one. It is 21.70. A 6’ is 25.00. Looks like a better cable than the LS-5CFB and Gotham Silver RG6 cables now used for audio.

Well, I have had her for a week now. Still a long way to go to burn in the V-Caps CuFT’s, but still sounds great. 

Biggest surprise is there is no loss of perceived resolution or detail. The increase weight, texture and dynamics is very welcomed. This is with the stock tubes.

Once I hit 450 hrs, I will put in better tubes. Also, I was prepared to live with higher noise floor, but it is dead silent. The same as my Anedio D2. And this is with 101db high efficiency speakers.  Really happy about that.  

Will report back back after it has more hours. Thanks everyone for your help.

Oh, and the builder (he did a beautiful job) installed the BNC on a switch, so I still have the stock RCA SPDIF. I decided against the USB as I would never use it. 

Orangecrush -  congrats on the 4.1 kit.  I built one several years ago and I think you will enjoy it very much.  After all the work I’ve done on it, I can’t imagine parting with it.

Dave

Thats awesome Dave. I am a believer!

More pics! Aaron, the ANK builder for Western Canada is awesome.  And it sounds even better then it looks! 

Hey everyone... glad to see this thread bumping along.

Its been a while since I posted about my Sowter I/V upgrade. I thought I would mention a few things as my DAC is sounding fabulous.

The switch from AN Copper coupling Caps to the other various Caps (take your pick) is a must do.

I love the my Sowter I/V's and highly recommend as a great bang for the buck upgrade.

I also got a nice bump in sound quality w the addition of an ART-Legato 24/96 SPDIF/USB converter. It was a further extension of the AN DAC sound of smoothness, dynamics and unfatiguing organics. I've been around the block w converters and this one is a keeper.

I have also switched out a handful of power cords and haven't had anything blow me away or have much impact on SQ. It probably has to do w all the tranny's. I am currently using a low priced Neotech Shielded Copper NEP something.

I've taken this DAC about as far is she needs to go... w the  only thing I've been thinking about is maybe some silver wiring. Any thoughts?

There is MORE...

You can further improve the PS board with oversized Kassai caps. I mounted mine on a separate board at the front. It is a squeeze but will fit. The bass and bass control improves with this upgrade.

The digital board is the kit version. The AN UK DAC 4.1 and 5 board is much better, has decent regulation on it. I got a blank PCB and built mine up. It can run off the kit reg board as well. Sounds much better than the kit digital board which is really the original 1.1 kit board.

The best tubes are the Bendix on the PS. Peter Q says don't use that, but everyone does, inc on his DAC 5 and M5/M6 pre amps. The Mullard ECL82 is the best reg for the same board. On the line board I liked the Tungsol 5685 best, NOS 1950s.

The I/V connections to the digital board and line board needs to be loaded correctly, AN UK use a different loading to ANK Canada. I used the AN UK loading with 680pf caps and 220k tantalums. The tants on the line board can be 2 waters, or better the new ceramic ones from AN UK.

Hope this helps.

More thoughts on this

Agreed, the AN UK copper caps are bad, really poor and lumpy bass, rolled of treble. No idea why Peter Q uses those in the AN UK DAC 5 Special I had, but they are rubbish. Possibly to keep the DAC 5 Signature sounding better by simply changing the caps?

I also don't buy into the silver transformers and such which cost a packet and claim to sound so much better. It is the same circuit, yet the Signature costs 15K more! 15K for 2 x 'better' output trans and 2 'better' I/V trans. Ridiculous. Peter can sell ice to the eskimo's....

The AN DACs are old now, way overpriced and can be bettered. Things have moved on IMO. But the Kit 4.1 tweaked up is a sweet spot. I have kept mine and will never sell it, and use it in a second headphone system. My main DAC is the Aries Cerat Kassadra which does everything much better than the AN UK DAC 5 did, MUCH better. Bigger dynamics, incredible detail yet super smooth with it, massive soundstage, bass of the scale good and fast. The AN DACs are sow, and get confused quickly as things hot up. I believe the caps and power supply can't cope, it all needs to be bigger IMO. And the digital board is the old AN UK DAC 4 board going back to 2004. Are they really saying they can't improve it? Don't believe it. I could say more but will stop short.

I would recommend the Kassandra and at 18K euros is a bargain v the AN DAC 5. I have tried many DACs now, and the Kassadra is the end game for me, as good a the best TTs IMO.

PM me if you are in Spain and want to hear it.

Hope this helps.

agree with that , the Audio note dacs are poor engineering and outdated technology  but even with that they can sound pretty good .   is there a way to bypass the Spdif  digital input and go with direct I2s   ?

I see this is quite an old thread now, dating back 6 years since the last post. I have the ANK 4.1 Limited Edition, the latest version which has the 5.1 digital board, I believe. Having read through all this I’m debating whether I should upgrade my DAC 4.1, or, just replace it with the 5.1 or some other DAC? 

I thought I’d just replace my teflon bypass caps with Deulund, upgrade the power supply and swap out the IV transformers for the Sowter versions. 

I’d certainly appreciate your input! Was it worth upgrading the 4.1, is it still, or, are there better alternatives?

Thanks, 

John